Why Grand Seiko Quartz is More Than Just an Entry Point to The Brand - Discussion On 9F

Hi everyone, Teddy Baldesar here back. Familiar face Joe Kirk. Great to see you as always, sir. >> Great to see you. Thanks for having me. >> Of course. So today, this is a subject that we've actually not talked about before. We've talked about all the different subjects I feel like surrounding Grand Seiko, but there's one area that we've neglected and that's 9F. So, one thing that I think people think about when they're talk about 9F is they see it as this entry point, but that's probably selling 9F pretty short. Yes, it is the entry point, but there's so much that is involved with the technology of 9F. And if you look at a lot of these other breakthroughs from Grand Seiko, you see some of these foundational elements that were breakthroughs first with 9F that allowed things like UFA to run. And there's so much here that I think you can appreciate beyond this just being a point of entry for the brand. So, I'm going to start with a very loaded question. >> Why Why is Why is 9F different when you're talking about quartz technology? >> Oh, I mean that there's a lot of answer to provide you in that. >> I said it was loaded. >> Yeah, of course. So, you know, I think that you know if you look at the history of quartz and especially in Sua Seosa when they made the the first uh quartz wristwatch sold in the world, the Astron, right? The idea was pretty simple and straightforward to you know make time essentially as precise as possible. And you know it utilized a battery as the power source as opposed to a main spring of a mechanical watch. And so you know how do you make this energy efficient right cuz battery consumption was very high back in those days in 1969 uh and through the 70s. And so energy efficiency is one of the big keys to to success. But when they created it, the 9F in 1993, I think it was with a simple aim in mind is, you know, to create something that can last and is built and engineered more like a mechanical watch than your typical quartz watch while at the same time reaping the benefits, every benefit you can possibly think of quartz as well. So, if I had to sum up 9F, uh, basically I would say that our simple aim was to create the quartz that surpasses quartz, right? that we wanted to create a quartz that can be handed down to the next generation. Something that is not disposable but actually serviceable and made with longevity in mind while also ultimately being ultra precise. >> So a statement I always hear we and we just throw it out there is like grand seiko fanatics is like we harvest our own grand the quartz crystals. Yes. So could we just take a little bit of the veil away and describe more around that process because we always hear that being like as a concept of why 9F is different and really just Gran Seiko is different but how is that actually done and what are some of the steps for that? Yeah. So, um you know with quartz crystal basically we have our uh quartz forest where we where we grow uh basically in autoclaves these giant towers that are submerged into the ground high heat high temperature and it starts as a thin sheet you call a seed and then turns into this giant block which is probably the length of my forearm. Wow. Right. That gets broken down and then uh all the quartz oscillators then eventually are cut into the tuning fork shape. So the the process is similar to that of a synthetic diamond. And the reason to do that is you're eliminating any impurities as if you were uh to mine the quartz, right? You would get rid of the impurities by harvesting, you know, inhouse grown uh synthetic quartz oscillators. So, that is kind of a a big one. It's, you know, often talked about by our our customers and fans uh of the brand is I can't believe you grow your own quartz in house. And that's pretty remarkable to me, too. Uh, and then in terms of making sure that it's going to oscillate at this high frequency for a quartz crystal, I mean, we're talking over 32,000 times per second. So, how are you ensuring that that is going to maintain its rate? Because we're talking 10 seconds a year of accuracy. Standard quartz movement, I mean, if you can output 15 seconds a month, that's pretty stellar. But now we're talking about 10 seconds a year. >> Yeah. There are many QC steps in the process from looking at the actual quartz blocks themselves. Uh you know inspecting the quality visually and and then once they're cut into the tuning fork shape we will test them across varying temperatures. We actually uh artificially age them for 90 days. So basically 3 months in a controlled environment to ensure stability and accuracy. You know I think there's a lot of misconception in quartz. It's not that they think about the quartz oscillator. They think about the battery and it makes it disposable and it makes it sound cheap and so quartz has sometimes a bit of a stigma to it, right? It's a little frowned upon because of this disposable aspect compared to a mechanical watch which can be handed down. Now, as I mentioned 9F, our goal is to be the opposite of that. We want to make sure that the quality of our oscillator is exceeding the norm, right? But the reality is the oscillator is the quartz. The balance wheel is the oscillator in a mechanical watch. So you cannot compare a an actual quartz crystal to anything but a balance wheel in in terms of timekeeping. So balance wheel is about four hertz, right? Yes. Four complete oscillations within 1 second where a quartz oscillator is 32,768 hertz. And so that many oscillations in 1 second is the reason for the ultra high accuracy, right? Less margin for error, let's say. And so the quartz oscillator uh may drift in its accuracy over time. >> So, you know, we want to make sure when you buy a 9F that it's stable right out of the box. So, this is why we do this 90-day aging process. It's very important to ensure high stability on the quartz oscillator that uh basically if if you were to buy a typical quartz oscillator right out of the box and no aging uh maybe in the first year or two you might see some changes or discrepancies in the accuracy compared to the you know previous years of ownership and we don't want that to happen. So we do this synthetic aging process. Then we test across the varying temperatures to ensure that the oscillator is stable across all temperatures and we specially select the crystals based on their reactions to temperature. >> Are those human selected like that's for like a a naked eye microscope or I mean how is that? >> It's more looking at the data the reaction to actual temperature while it's being tested. So when you're testing across varying temperatures, you can see the oscillator's reaction and then you can determine if it falls within the right range naturally then it's specially selected but on top of that we also have what we call temperature compensation or thermal compensation >> because if you look at traditional quartz watchmaking I mean that that rate is pretty standard for a quartz watch has that pioelectric effect it's going to vibrate and at that specific rate and working with that IC to be able to have that accuracy but do you have this temperature conversation which seems like the other breakthrough that allows you to achieve this level of accuracy because one of the challenges I would imagine is just being able to you know with this varying degree in 10 seconds a year that's like where a high precision quartz uh you know higher frequency quartz movement too because you've been able to stay at this traditional rate. So as temperature compensation really the breakthrough that allows that to happen. You're not changing the oscillators frequency. You're just able to uh adjust and ensure that it's getting that message from the IC basically. >> Yeah. Exactly. So what we do with 9F uh to ensure that that high stability is consistent across varying temperatures is during that testing process we determine the reaction of the quartz uh you know has to the varying temperatures and we pair it with an integrated circuit that's ultra low power that knows how that individual crystal reacts to temperature and is programmed to compensate it accordingly. So each individual crystal has its own individually programmed IC to pair perfectly with that watch to ensure that 540 times a day or every you know just over every couple minutes it's detecting the temperature and compensating if necessary. And then one other question I would have uh you mentioned earlier this year when we were sitting down talking about the UFA this like regulator switch and something that was interesting for me was learning more about how quartz movements in a quartz oscillator can be actually fine-tuned and regulated in a mechanical watch. It's usually done by either balance screws. It could be done by lengthening and shortening a hairspr. But there's actually a way to make some small adjustments to a quartz oscillator as well. >> Yeah. You have to keep in mind too we had temperature compensation back in the 70s. Mhm. >> So temperature compensation is not new and we've done a variety of different ways uh throughout the company you know as Grand Seiko and independently but uh Seikko as well um in in the history of quartz development there's so many you know amazing breakthroughs but temperature compensation nowadays you know we we have it keep I mean 1993 it's over 30 years going strong 9F and no real changes so I think that that's you know that's an important statement actually for a courts movement. You know, it's kind of a piece of technology in a way, but at the same time, it's stood the test of time, which technology typically does not do. So, I think that there's something very special about 9F and in that regard. Um, but when it comes to long-term serviceability, again, I'm always stressing the longevity of 9F, that regulation switch, that ability to adjust the accuracy. you know, after many many years of use, let's say you hand it down to the next generation and all of a sudden it's not within 10 seconds a year, it's 11 seconds, you know, accuracy per year and you that drives you crazy, right? >> Send it to the service center, they adjust it and it's perfect. You know, it's a right back within range. It's a very simple process and you know that's the beauty of this 9F is that it's easy to maintain. So another thing I noticed when we were in Shinshu was watching some 9F assembly. It followed more of a mechanical watch making assembly process than a quartz assembly process. And that came down to I think when we were in in the studio they were putting a hair spring and a quartz watch. And then just looking at the visuals of these movements they're metal calibers. Uh you know they're beautiful too. I think these are actually some pretty nice movements for the price range in which they occupy. So, let's maybe talk about that idea around just these being built a little bit more for longevity because it seems like there's a whole differentiation between how a 9F caliber is going to be constructed for the long term versus a lot of coarse calibers. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, I think that uh I knew you were going to bring up the spring. That's a that's a that's a given. But, uh when you look at 9F, you know, as you mentioned, it's made of metal. It's a it's a brass movement. It's beautifully finished. So, all the bridges, which is kind of compartmentalized. So you have you know your integrated circuit would be under this uh bottom bridge. Uh the top bridge is where your keyless works are your operating levers and then the middle panel here is a very special uh attribute. This is our uh protective shield cabin. So this is where the gear train lies and also where that little magical hairspr is. So obviously it's using a hairspr um but not for its typical purpose in watchmaking. So the hairspr uh is more for absorbing backlash. So there the hairspr is actually attached to a gear and that gear lies at the end of the gear train and this we call the backlash auto adjust mechanism. So basically a quartz watch when the second hand jumps from second to second typically there's some play there's some wiggle that occurs and when it lands on the marker it wiggles a little bit and might keep it off center. So our engineers brilliantly thought of this use of a hairsprain not in the conventional way to absorb the backlash in the gear train. So when the second hand jumps, it lands assertively and on the marker. And that is a a unique feature that you would find in this protective shield cabin. But the shield cabin itself is actually a construction, right? So you have the main plate, you have a mid bridge, and then you have the top bridge. And sandwiched in between is the gear train. And there are essentially walls that prevent dust from entering when you're changing the battery, right? cuz not always, you know, are you doing this in uh in a dustfree environment. So, we wanted to ensure that even the smallest piece of dust does not get into the gear train because, you know, longterm it could cause issues. So, that construction is also dramatically helping improve the longevity of the movement. >> So, Jordan, my next question would be really around serviceability. So, you have a three-year battery life, but when a watch is sent back as a 9F, like you know, what is that process like? What are some of the considerations there in terms of the construction to think about that long term? >> Yeah, I I mean so the you know idea is to create as longlasting of a movement as possible and to to help retain uh let's say lubrication you know this is a nine jewel quartz movement. You don't have to use jewels in in movements uh that are quartz but in this instance there are nine of them. Not coincidence that it's 9F you know nine nine jewels. It is a coincidence. Um so but what what's interesting about it is if you look right here you'll see this one jewel that has uh what looks to be like everyone I think knows dia shock. Yes. >> Um but we call this dia fix. So that kind of almost horseshoe shaped uh spring is actually holding on a cap jewel that works with an open jewel or a whole jewel uh to retain lubricant for the rotor for the step motor. >> So that's what's going to drive the hands basically. Right. >> Exactly. So it allows the lubricant to be controlled and and distributed over a long course of time. And yeah, it's it so like we talked about the protective shield construction and diaphix is just adding to that increased longevity and durability. Um for you know simple things like servicing this movement or let's say you need a battery change. You send it in you know I always recommend to send it into the service center at least you know that you're getting you know the gaskets inspected and everything's pressure tested and things like that. Um, but the battery itself is actually quite easy to change. I mean, you can see it just right on top and you just pop it out and pop in a new one. Um, however, at our service center, you can actually uh we can test on a proprietary machine to ensure that the accuracy is within its guaranteed uh range and if not we also have the ability to adjust the regulator switch right there by the regulator sending a an electrical changing the electrical current to the quartz oscillator. Is that how >> essentially? Yeah, I mean it's uh you know by applying different let's say uh you know a change in in the current uh you can slightly change the frequency of you know it's always that baseline 32,768 but you can change its uh frequency slightly. >> Interesting. Okay. And Joe, like this is a nice looking movement. Like what are you calling all these surface treatments? I mean you have like the striping finish but there's a lot of details here you normally will never see in a quartz watch. >> Yeah. Yeah. So I mean obviously it's made of metal as we discussed but um you know the the striping is just plain striping similar to how we do on caliber 9R65 as an example uh you know with a cutting process to create the stripes and we have beveing all around the bridges. So you know the the aesthetic it's 45° angle mirror polished. I mean the aesthetic is is absolutely beautiful especially you know considering it's quartz and at its price point. >> So a lot of great attributes all the way around. And then let's maybe transition to talking a little bit more about the outward appearance of the watches. We talked about 9F more the calibers. Uh but this is where we can also speak to some of those ideas like the double step with the second hand the uh instantaneous date change and give us maybe a sense right now with like 9F as uh a caliber and the different watches that are going to house it because there have been a lot of changes recently. So where do like you start if you wanted to get into 9F? So, you know, at 9F, uh, we start with models either like SPGX261 or 263. They've been a mainstay since the brand went global in 2010. The SPGX261, 63, uh, right now are going to be 2700. Uh, and, you know, that's the entry point in the Grand Seiko. And you get a Zeratu polished case, you get, uh, it's a three-piece brushed bracelet and 37mm case, which was our most compact size for quite some time because of the size of the caliber itself. The 9F62 is what we use in this particular model with the uh date. The size is because you know this movement unlike spring drive as an example right coming from the same factory which typically for an automatic movement has well over 250 components uh this movement is over 130 components >> but that's still more than most automatics. Yes. >> So it's it's really surprising to me there's so much care and love and all hand assembled and put together in the same studio at the Shinshu watch studio. uh you know you have this amazing level of care but we can also make a much more compact size with this movement. So we have the 962 which has the date display that you'll see here. We also make 961 which has no date. Um but I think that the date is like one of the best features. It's an instantaneous date as you mentioned. >> So there's a reason why you don't see that on quartz watches. >> Is it just the torque from there's no availability of torque and being able to have the energy to be able to shift that forward. Is that usually the main challenge? >> Exactly. So with 9F, right, we wanted to use big bold hands like we use on all Grand Seikos. They have to be that dolphin style, you know, uh diamond cut uh highly angular hands. And we can't use plastic or any other material besides metal, right? Typically brass is our is our material of choice and the second hand typically is steel. And so, you know, that makes it heavy. Compared to a lot of quartz watches, our steel secondhand that you'll see on these is like three times heavier. So, it can it it's a lot and it needs torque. So, you know, torque in quartz watches is the reason why you can't use big heavy hands typically. But 9F obviously we found a solution to that. So, we call our twin pulse motor. Uh basically, instead of jumping from second to second, right, have you ever seen 1 second was the old saying when we first came out with the chords. Uh, this is actually moving twice in 1 second, but the the middle step happens so fast that you can't see it unless you go in slow motion. >> H. >> And then how is that allowing you to have like a better use of energy just because you don't have to actually use torque for it to all just jump forward all at once and so you're doing intermediate an intermediate step is helping you in that in that process. >> Exactly. Yeah. So, you know, it does help with the power consumption a little bit, but you know, you're talking about almost twice the torque of a conventional quartz watch. So it does you know theoretically it should eat the battery life much faster right so you know you're instead of a threeyear maybe it would be one and a half right it's that's difficult but we needed to be energy efficient in every way possible because as we mentioned earlier it's also detecting temperature 540 times a day there's a lot going on so we need to be able to to reduce power consumption as much as possible across the board uh in order to ensure high efficiency so because of this dual dual step motor is two pulse uh action of the second hand that increases the torque. We also can use a mechanically driven instantaneous state. >> So happens in a blink of an eye. >> There's no there's not really a creep that's going to be happening over like multiple hours that you'll see in a lot of other watches. >> I mean there's still Yes. So there still is, but >> matter of minutes rather than hours, right? >> Yeah. The well the uh the jump occurs very rapidly, but the engagement of the spring lever is still uh you know operating over a course of time. However, it's not uh you know the same limitations that you would find in a slow crawl date in terms of like setting and and things like that. >> And it'll probably keep the date also more square because one of the challenges too if you have a really long graduated uh change at that point you might see the the numerals get cut off pretty nasty in the >> Yeah. Yeah. Very true. Very true. But we wanted to ensure high legibility across every format in in this watch. And again the engineering of the movement is what brought that to life. And then some other collections too. So we're looking here at these entry points to 9F and really the brand Grand Seiko. And then there are a few other pockets also for different 9F calibers and different complication types. But uh we're looking at a newer uh inclusion to the family, but this was in addition to be the the snowflake version of 9F which is a 355. Uh so this is now the 357. >> Seven. All right. There we go. >> I knew you knew it. You could have guessed. >> Okay. Sometimes you never know with Grand Sega references. >> Yeah. Yeah. you know, there's a there's some anomalies, we'll say, but uh yeah, so we now have, you know, we've had the 355 now for a little while and and the 357 is a take on, you know, what famously named the Skyflake dial, uh now in 37mm, also in titanium like the 355, uh the white dial quartz uh snowflake. And so now we have a blue dial variation, but it's the same case, same bracelet. So it's it's essentially the same watch, just a new dial variation. And I think it's perfect. And I I mean the texture plus this kind of distressed look of this uh sky blue is really I think one of the one of the most beautiful dials uh that that we could have >> because texture is not something you'll typically see associated with 9F like the same way as you get higher up in the brand's catalog. So this is unique opportunity. You're spending a bit more than what we saw previously but similar concept. You have the instantaneous chain for the date >> but uh you know you have the titanium so that's of course going to increase the cost. We also have a fivepiece uh bracelet on this which will make it a little bit more as well and then the uh you know dial process. So you know it does end up a little bit more but still at the end of the day an incredible value and um you know I think that everyone loves the the nature and and textures of Grand Seiko but I think also you know if you want steel and you want something simple the sunray finish that we do is exceptional. We do have a black lacquer option in the in the SPGX261. Uh but we also have the 63 which is that champagne silver color. And uh that's an incredibly complex dial to make too. And now we have also introduced at the same time as this blue snowflake or the skyflake uh is the 37mm in a blue sunray finish dial. And so this 37mm blue is uh something that's actually existed in the Japanese domestic market since the others were introduced. However, it wasn't sold globally and now uh this model will be available on a global level. >> And then in between these two collections, there's another collection. The SPGP series has the 013 and that'll be a 40mm case. >> Exactly. Yeah. So, the SPGP series has the 9F85 movement. So, it's a little bit larger diameter caliber. Uh at the same time, it also has a um adjustable independently adjustable hour hand. So you can quick jump the hour as you're traveling without a GMT feature. Uh similarly we have the 9F86 which is the GMT >> which is also I think one of these really cool areas of interest for people that are into Grand Seiko and and just honestly a GMT watch. You have isolated hour function for the local hour hand. So be something like the SBGN027. This is like a fan favorite. >> Yeah. Great sports watch. You know have the the engraved bezel and you know it's very uh you know it's very nice to have a multi-time zone watch. I travel a lot as you know, so you know, it's I I find it very convenient. Um, but I think that, you know, with the 9F, the size, the the style, all of that just is a a winning combination. And then just the convenience of the accuracy, it's running for 3 years, not for, you know, 3-day power reserve. You know, there's a lot of practicality in it. And I think that's why it's the perfect fit. You know, 9F is the perfect fit for Grand Seiko. You know, we have mechanical, which is a part of our history and tradition. We have spring drive, which is a truly unique innovation. And then we have quartz because Grand Seiko was made to be the ultimate practical watch. There's nothing more practical. It's always accurate. It's always running pretty much. And uh you can grab it and go. You can set all your other watches to it. A lot of our customers do that. >> Yep. >> I I saw you just doing it a while ago. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, it's uh you know, it's really incredible, you know, the the benefits of 9F. Um, but I think that there's a lot to offer in in these movements and in these designs, uh, you know, especially based on the size. >> Yeah. And for me, I'm somebody that I mean, I like mechanical watches because of this idea of being the antithesis of disposable goods and like that's the world in which we live in. But 9F is basically taking the very cerebral practicality that comes with everything that is brought forth by courts and its accuracy, its durability, but then you have this hand craftsmanship that's mired with that. And I think that's or combined with that I think that's fantastic and that I think is why it lands so well with so many people especially people that are into grano which understand these ideas very well. >> There's a misconception in the industry where courts means cheap and you know we are really showing that it is not. It's really something that's exceptional and you can be proud of. >> Well Joe thank you so much. Uh as I stated 9F was something that we had not yet talked about. So I'm very happy to do it and I really appreciate you walking through all the details of what 9F has to offer. >> Oh you know it's my pleasure. Thank you sir. All right. Thanks Eddie. >>