Actor Keegan Allen With Ben Clymer On Creating Hodinkee And The Love Of Watches | House of Craft

I must say that when I see all the faces I know now why I didn't retire because how can anybody retire from a passion I don't know our economy and the gender inequality will catch up as a brand we better be prepared for that last time I saw you you were actually talking about watches that belong to your father yeah this is all your fault yeah you guys I said it in the video and my intro thanks for bringing it up but this is all your fault I didn't care about Watchers until you guys put all these videos gaming the algorithm pretty much yeah like her right there completely on brand always I even we got so first first of all congratulations on the acquisition oh thanks dude I appreciate that and thank you all for being here with us I have a some hard-hitting questions for Ben Keegan took notes I took some notes so here's the thing I've known I've known you for a long time and I started out as a fan of hinki and uh I'm really excited to have this opportunity because every time I hang out with you I have new questions and I write them down and uh and then I leave and I go I should ask Ben I should ask him so now I have some cool questions because you've come very far in uh you've really had the opportunity to handle and uh see some of the most extraordinary watches in the world at this point and uh I I was telling you this before I felt so alone in my passion for watches before I found hinki and it it made it okay to to open up either your editorials or your blogs or whatever and see that I'm not alone in this that there are other people either watching from home or in the room with us right now that share this passion and your calming presence uh it made it okay um but over the years hinki has kind of grown from this very Niche blog to a major platform that connected uh Brands and collectors how has your personal inspiration and passion for watches evolved oh man that that's a that's that's a that's a loaded question I think first of all thank you for for saying that that's very kind um you know I I think before I even answer that I think what what you said is like and this was not premeditated is exactly why I'm really proud of hink key you know put Acquisitions and money and and commerce and all that aside I think the idea of providing a platform around which people can connect at a personal level uh is what I'm most proud of so the community you guys you know you were not unlike myself I mean I love this stuff but I I I loved it on an island I loved it in Silo and then I think you know I I started hinki because I wanted to connect with other people I started going to auctions I started reading forums and started reading the other magazines and finding other folks some of which are are in the room some some early friends of mine in the watch world and I think you know hinki if it's done anything it has allowed people like you people like me to find one another um and then you so Keegan was an early talking watches guest I'm sure many of you will remember um we launched that series with a mutual friend in John Mayor who is obviously a one-of-a-kind guy in the ability to to um put to words the very idea of what makes watches wonderful and he's cool and he's a rock star and he's six foot5 and he's got all these things that make it say wait a minute like okay like not only dorks are interested in watches even rock stars and actors as well um or rather rock stars and actors are dorks yeah yeah exactly right um so you know in terms of my own passion like it it began very simply it began with my grandfather's Omega which is well documented uh and then vintage Rolex because it's just fun and cool and at the time nobody was really paying attention to to Vintage it was all new watches uh if I may say the the domestic Market in 2008 or so was really dominated by by tourists mostly uh uh Chinese clients would come to the US and buy the domestic client at a new watch retailer didn't really exist at scale there were certain people John Mayor you know there was a few guys at Goldman Sachs that were big buyers of patch things like that um but it wasn't really at scale and then you know I think our sensibility the hinki sensibility allowed it to to to grow and so first vintage became very big and then a different appreciation of traditional watchmaking began to take over the um the kind of opulence of of what really was was was popular back then and my taste has kind of evolved with it and so vintage Rolex was was first and foremost for me then I got into modern you know contemporary PCH contemporary AP Rolex Etc longa and right now where I am is I'm I'm kind of on the bench so to speak and I Ed that term when I talked about me coming back to to to work uh with hinki again I've kind of been living on the bench for the past four years both professionally in the sense that I wasn't running hinki but still around obviously and then also the way that I buy watches and every now and then something happens where it makes me want to get off the bench this opportunity with watching Switzerland is one of those things uh and then certain watches Get Me Off the Bench the watch I'm wearing today which is a retf Brey that maybe want to get off the bench a good vintage Daytona still gets me off the bench um but I'm much more selective now with Watchers than I ever was when I was not married and doing okay I would spend every cent I had on watches it was a problem it was really bad um you know I I had so much in watches and I didn't own an apartment you know I didn't own a car but I had the most amazing watches so where I am right now is slightly more mature but I see something special and it'll pull me off the bench yeah it's it's not a sickness I just want to make sure everybody knows it's not a sickness to have a nice watch and have nothing else uh um now is there a watch in your collection now cuz you you have had it's come to fruition at this point right with this acquisition and then also in your in your career is there a watch right now uh after everything that carries a new personal story uh perhaps one that isn't about the most valuable or but something that has become Irreplaceable to you or a brand now that resonates with you in a way that it didn't when you first started yeah I I'll start with a watch and I I think you know so some some years ago uh I gave a very inexpensive watch to Edge sharen and he said wow nobody's ever given me a watch before and I said wow that's really weird you would think that I don't know him being him he would get watches from people all the time Brands would give him watches and then by by pure happen stance I I turned 42 years ago and on on the day of my 40th birthday my wife gave me a box and it was it was a watch and I had realized then that nobody had ever given me a watch before really um brands have tried I always say no unless it's a good one just kidding um but um I opened it up and it was a 36 mm brand new Platinum day date with a silver dial and it was engraved with her handwriting on the back and that is the watch that I wear the most it's the watch that I you know that that in many ways has replaced my grandfather's omega as the most meaningful thing because it's from my wife who's everything to me and uh it's a 36 millimeter Platinum day dat nobody thinks it's anything you know I can wear it on the subway if I took the subway um you know it's not something that anyone's going to really really notice unlike a Daytona such as yours yeah yeah and this is actually not my watch this is Jared padaki I did a show with him for four years he let me borrow it cuz I'm waiting waiting for my panda Daytona whenever Josh uh at for wants to uh you know it's been years it's fine we all know we all know what it's like to wait and Hound I'm not hounding him but if you're watching Josh just letting you know that um we both we're both waiting you know so um uh anyway this isn't about me waiting for Daytona um no but I I I love that I love that I I know you all met when you were working together I remember you called and I I love that and I've known you for so long now and I when I met you originally uh I I had this question for you and I didn't ask it to you okay and it and now it it's even more of an interesting question uh for me and I'm sure for everybody here but wh while building hinki okay what was the most surprising cultural Insight you discovered about how people connect with watches yeah and and I'm saying this not just to support the room full of watch addicts but I I think that there's it's really easy to from the outside looking in to think this is about money or about status or about you know proving that you are something that that that you want to you know Express to the world and I I I don't think it is about that in fact I I would say it's not about that I think the thing that I've that I've learned the most going back to what you said in the beginning is like there are there's a whole class of people there's a whole genre of people that in many ways and I I'm not generalizing towards everybody here but some people don't feel welcome they they they don't feel like they have a home not a physical home obviously but an emotional home and I think there's a certain kind of person that appreciates beautiful things for the right reasons and I think it's really easy and and luxury goods get get a bad RP at times for for the wrong reasons and look it's easy to launder money in nice things and art and cars and watches and etc etc and people do look to luxury objects to um to say something about theirselves sometimes healthy sometimes not but when it's processed in a really healthy way it allows you to express Express yourself in a meaningful way it allows you to identify with other people you know you mentioned somebody noticing your Daytona recently um and you know it's one of those things that allows people to connect in a really wonderful way that isn't necessarily on the surface you know I have many of my friends from from high school that are not interested in watches at all we're like what's the deal like why do you spend so much like why do you spend so much time why why do all like you know why are all your friends into this and they they just don't get it but I have one friend that I'm thinking of specifically who's a he's a da a district attorney you know smart guy and he's really IND divinyl and I'm just like dude you're like it's the exact same thing you just happen to be IND divinyl we happen to be in watches and it's it's the exact same appreciation it could be art it could be photography it could be wine anything um it could be lifting weights it could be anything um you know and I think the ability to connect and I think mostly and not to generalize again but I think for for men in particular it's challenging to make new friends and I think that that's a broadly accepted notion uh and so the easiest way to make new friends as as a man of a certain age is to is to share passion Golf Cars watches cameras whatever and watches have this amazing ability because the world is still very small like watches are small thing you in the grand scheme of things uh and so you you get to realize that you kind of know everybody really quickly if not in real life then then on Instagram certainly um and all of a sudden everyone's connected yeah and I agree you've kind of aggregated all of the uh the the passion around not just watch collecting but yeah car with with hinki um cameras uh that those those passions all kind of go together in the mechanical side of appreciation and I do agree that like in some ways they you put on a Daytona to you know you feel like Oh I'm a race car driver just today or you put on a vintage sub and you're like I'm James Bond you know absolutely or or or you know you you literally uh acquire these personalities to these watches and even more sentimental as you were saying with with that watch that got from your wife is that they hold memories and and their accomplishments are Milestones um is there a a I actually have totally non-secretor here um is there a specific moment in the evolution of watchmaking history that you feel has been overlooked or underappreciated by enthusiasts and collectors oh wow that that's that's a that's a really good question um I don't think it's been overlooked but I don't think it gets enough attention in in the in the greater kind of contemporary history of watchmaking and that's the introduction of the the longa data graph I I think that watch in terms of uh you know culturally you know in The Grand in the big pictures not significant to like people right but highly significant to to cont excuse me contemporary watchmaking that watch changed everything you know I mean there there's a famous anecdote that Philipe Stern who at the time was the president owner of PCH phip walked over and looked at it and said hm we have a problem uh and at the time you know pek was using lania based chronograph calibers in their 57 this is obviously you know effect not effectively in fact the first groundup engineer in-house chronograph to be designed for finishing you know for for really contemporary um in-house watchmaking so I I think that watch represents a real step change in terms of how people think about watches the idea of In-House really I mean okay on time zone and and and the purist people talked about it but it it wasn't as pressant as it was when that watch itself came out I didn't realize you'd be sitting front row wearing it but thank doing that yeah Inc but I when I look back at the the the the history of our generation of watchmaking the introduction of the first series data graph I think is it and I think with time we've already seen them go up in value a little bit I mean it kind of come up and down um I think they will continue to to to really appreciate as people begin to understand how meaningful that is I don't know that pek Vashon AP would have even taken the time to he's taking it off um just to whine he's just whining it guys I know like um I don't know that patch would have not just rested on their Laurels and continued to use lania or other ous outsourced rather uh products I think that watch really made everybody level up really quickly yeah it was it was definitely an evolution I I agree with you and it Chang I think it at that moment like the watch industry changed right no question do you feel like now okay uh as someone who has seen this industry evolve just in our generation and now newer generation uh do you think uh how do you think technological innovations like blockchain or AI could reshape the future of watch collecting yeah I I I I don't blockchain not not so much to be honest with you um I think AI is changing everything you know and uh a friend of mine who actually used to work with me here named Kevin Rose who's a big Tech guy he said basically like you know software kind of ate what came before and AI is about to eat software in terms of like what it will mean for for the world um I think that will change things you know markedly I I think taking even a few steps backward CAD right like computer a a design is something that really changed the watch making industry for real and I think when when you know there's this kind of constant debate about what is a vintage watch and people send to say it's around 1986 or 1990 or maybe it's when longa came out with the data graph or you know it's whatever you want it to be maybe it's just 25 years of of age I tend to view it as pre-ad post Cad and so the idea of what computer a design can mean to watchmaker I think is is the delineator um and then you look at finishing and you know going to a guy who came to a previous event that we've done this was almost 10 years ago now Philipe dufor who is many considered was the watchmaker of I would say the last generation the level of finishing really runs in line with what what langa did with the data graph right like nobody needs a movement that beautiful at all right and then you look at du4 and you look at his Simplicity which you know it's in the name like it's a very simple watch but it's finished to an artistic level and he really elevated things to in a way that nobody was really doing so I think you know you saw langa with with data with the data graph and and other watches and duor with several of his watches do things not because they had to but because they wanted to and then you look at you know not that watch necessarily but the watch that I'm wearing with which is a retep reppy or Simone Brett who will be here later uh these watches are so expertly finished for the sake of finishing right like for no other purpose it's it serves effectively no mechanical purpose but that doesn't matter you're paying for the story you're paying for the craftsmanship it's it's becomes Artistry at that point yeah yeah I agree if you could TR time travel and bring one watch back from the future to the present what would you hope to find in its design and technology in design and Technology yeah interesting so there there is one great hope of mine uh and I'd be happy to say this publicly but you know I haven't yet and that is uh a really finely finished uh Innovative time only protect phip which doesn't really exist today and I it does not I I love pek obviously I mean it's it is it is exactly where it belongs it's an amazing company but I do think that they have uh they haven't challenged themselves in meaningful ways and when you look at lauron Fier when you look at dufor when you look at rap who used to work at patch for the record and if you talk to him why he went out on his own he basically will say you know patch wasn't pushing things hard enough uh and look they don't need to right they're going to sell every watch to make no matter what and and that good good for them they deserve it but if if Tech could really um do something really really wonderful and I'm thinking the JB Champion unique Observatory chronometer in Platinum it sold in the same auction at at at Christi's probably 10 or 11 years ago as the platinum $24.99 and it sold for more money than that that is what I would like to see patch do today which was Observatory chronometry expert finish it was made for one particular client has his name on it um that's the type of thing that I would love to see patch do today like bring bring all of the noise and The Innovation into something very simple yeah well I I think I think patch you know it's it's a little bit like AP or insert any hot brand rard meal you know it's very easy to criticize these guys as just kind of resting on their Laurels but when you get to Patch's highend really highend you know above 400,000 Split Second and above we'll say they're doing things at a level that nobody else can compare with in my opinion um but when you get to their more consumer stuff it's it's not as uh special from a finishing perspective you know it's a lot of machine finishing which is okay but you just want to know what you're paying for I think if patch took what they were doing in their grand comps and put it into a time only watch we'd have something really remarkable dude it would be so crazy that's a that's a good answer and and it makes you think too like what what they're capable of doing and also just you know on as side here is that I think a lot of a lot of these watch brands um wouldn't be where they are at today without the audience that that that you guys have garnered I really don't think that they would they would be pushing themselves in certain ways um it's very without yeah without without you without hinki without um without all of all of you you that are here right now it's I think that it is really um driven by by Passion and and that Innovation is driven by Passion uh this is a weird question uh but I have to ask it to you and I know that there may be a different answer behind closed doors but I I want I I do think that I'll give it to you straight it's just fun it's just a fun question you don't have to answer it are there any conspiracy theories or controver whispered Rumors in the watch world that you feel might actually have some truth to them oh man uh is this being broadcast anywhere that's why I was like I don't know I also I also just remembered I now work for a publicly traded company so I can't say anything right I did um but it's um no look I I think there are there's some things that are are constantly out there like you know Rolex in the Vatican and like all this like kind of crazy stuff like that which which I do not believe to be true for yeah um but you never know right I know right I was like you're like I don't think it's true I don't think it's yeah um I look anytime that that a company big or small achieves any like um inordinate amount of success there's going to be you know there's going to be conspiracy theories I've heard them about myself which are all not true um every single one um but I look I think there is there's no question that things are political there's no question that uh it's incredibly hard to convince people pres company included to spend this much money on things you don't need um so I I do think that there is um there would be some Merit to the idea that like that it is a it is a challenging future ahead if that makes any sense but I think that you know and I appreciate you saying that hinki played some role in in the success of or the the growth of the watch industry um but I think it is um it it is I think that we're in in for an interesting time because I just think like the markets have changed so much and I think the the the co era which represented so much growth for so many of us and I would guess most people in this room were already into watches before covid but there's a good chunk of the audience that that wasn't not our audience necessarily but the watch buing audience and I I do think that uh I do think things will be challenging ahead but that's not to say it's insurmountable right good answer good answer and very much dodging all of the correct that's correct yeah um but yeah and I want to refine that actually I think hinki has done something very very interesting thing that has never been done before by and I said this to you re and I mean it and I want to say it in front of everybody I don't think any any other uh editorial uh Arbiter between collector or or consumer because you guys yourselves were consumers you guys yourselves were passionate about the these things and there's so many premutations you could take these stories um and it's not a it I it never is has been or I don't think will be just about selling product cuz you guys have done collaborations that have been so fun in fact the only time I ever cried receiving a watch was that tutor hinki for friends of hinki um so special but you guys have done a million you know amazing collaborations whether it's been through advertisement or through specialty watches um you had your watch recently which I love and I would have worn it if I if I wouldn't have taken Jared's watch um but uh what do you think is the most underrated technological advancement or design innovation in the watch industry that you feel like doesn't get the recognition it deserves like of of like modern day of modern day watches uh silicon hairspring I guess which is like incredibly nerdy and probably not that interesting to to most people here but silicon hairspring is is a big deal Rolex uses it now um you know it allows for longer lasting you know less service intervals Etc and I think that the one thing that that that we don't talk about a lot in on hinki or really anybody talks about is servicing a watch cuz it's just not fun like it's a total bummer it is not fun actually don't you have a watch in service I have I have a watch right now of a travel time in service that's had to be expedited to Geneva and I'm I'm very cross about it I'm sad um and you know look don't service a watch unless you need to that's all I would say to to about that please don't come from me where's the pitch people they're like yeah yeah they like carry me off uh sorry but yeah go go ahead yeah no I I I think you know as as we're intimating like servicing watch sucks like it just does it's expensive if it's not in warranty it takes forever I mean I've had watches in service for two plus years I think you may have have two whoa yeah two years yeah wow um new watches mind you um old watches for sure and I I think you know silicon and the use of silicon broadly are are really something that that already has and will continue to change the game I forget what the warranty is on Rolex now somebody here might know it's probably 8 years something like that but in the beginning or not the beginning in my lifetime it was 3 years yeah it's three yeah then it was five now I believe it's eight and that's not because Rolex has gotten more generous right it's probably because that they're actually products that that can last longer yeah that technology do do you know what's really crazy is when I did I did Walker with Jared and he would let me wear watches on TV so if you ever watch our show in the Four Seasons I'm like in each season each episode I'm wearing a different watch that Jared would bring to set and one of the craziest watches is he has a datagraph up down uh Split Second and I don't understand that mechanism it does not make any sense but it is the craziest thing when you press that and you see the hand and then it splits again and you're just like how many what in the world the Double Split it's so crazy the Double Split yeah um anyway uh H hinki has now remained influential while media Landscapes continue to change very rapidly how do you see the future of Independent Media in a world dominating by algorithms and social platforms and what is your strategy for keeping hinki voice authentic amidst all these shifts yeah I mean look I think that that that's a great question and I think honestly like the answer are you know it's it's Mark over there it's Tony over there it's it's the voices that that we've brought on to the editorial team like these guys are in it for the right reason so to speak these guys are real watch collectors not just them but the whole team um and I I think you know you can't fake this type of passion it's really easy to see right through um and so if for for us it's a simple as finding the right voice I think frankly we need to do a better job on social media no question about it uh we need to get on Tik Tok uh you know we need to do that we like our our version of of YouTube and look I I can say that like the man back there who's looking at his phone will and I hey Will um he and I really help build you know the the the Watch scene on YouTube for sure and he's the guy that shot the first talking watches and every subsequent talking watches that is amazing long form content oh man yeah and and look I'm very proud of every episode we've ever shot but like that's not the type of content that that drives engagement today and I'm not just saying for us but you know broadly speaking it is quicker it's more authentic I was actually with uh I was with Google and Zurich two weeks ago and I was actually with somebody that like basically kind of heads up uh YouTube and and he was a watch guy and he was like oh I love you know Keegan Allen and John and all this stuff and I said yeah you know one thing that I just want to like understand is we did this video with John Mayor and Ed Sheran together right it was an hour long and we had I don't know $10 million worth of watches like it was crazy crazy like when you when you think about that like I was like why did that video not get 10 million views and he goes because you weren't there you or one of your staff members weren't there which made it feel less authentic than if it was if it was you know Mark or Tony or mikica or James or somebody like that because people today don't I mean like John is incredible no question about it and so is Ed but they want to feel like they're part of that story and when you're when you've got one Rockstar interviewing another Rockstar it kind of feels slightly more disconnected and so that that that video did exceptionally well got a few million views but in my mind I kept thinking like this should get 20 million views this should have I mean this is Mega you know and so I just think we have to be aware of the changes in the world and and and this is Straight From the Source this is a guy that works at YouTube you know um and so I think that was really telling to me that's only two weeks ago that that that he told me that and so I think you'll start to see much more organic kind of authentic content from coming from our team soon that's interesting it's it's so interesting in the in the grand scheme of the landscape of of social media now what you know sometimes like I I don't have a Tik Tok but I have a friend that has a Tik Tok and they would show me these little Snippets of our talking watches that someone had edited with little like captions and all kinds of stuff and I was like wow that is crazy but it's becoming more short form not just because of people's attention spans but because it's so um pointed towards that sort towards a target audience right well let me let me turn it on you so if you guys don't know Keegan has a lot of Instagram followers like more than you might imagine how many followers do you have well I used to have over 9 million and then it went down to 8 something because I they were apparently there were Bots and I deleted the Bots okay so it's 8.9 now or something so you 8.9 million follow yeah yeah so how do you do that yeah I don't know I was on a TV show and then all these people just started like I'm being honest like started following it was right when Twitter started and I'll never forget I was at a like a Hol young Hollywood event I was so young it must have been in my early 20s I just done acting school and like you know plays and stuff and someone was like you have 100,000 followers on Twitter and I was like what in the world are you talking about and I and then I started seeing like what this is and it's intoxicating right it just kept building and building and building and then Instagram started and I'm was a you know really into photography I have a photo book that uh actually was the first time we had met was I was here for life love beauty which is a photo journal and then uh I did another book called Hollywood um um and so when Instagram came out I was like oh my go so fun um but uh you know with with that came obviously a huge amount of responsibility because suddenly there was this influence that before the algorithms sort of damned them up so to speak and rightfully so I don't think anybody should have access to that much the that many people with just you know today I'm going to be drinking oat milk and then everybody like know a million people would be like I want oat milk now it's like craziness but um in the watch world we all know that that can actually be a toxic thing because the world changed for some of us that are and I I Loop myself in there because I was a collector and I I remember I'm going to say it because I have to it's fun um your second talking watch is with John Mayer and him pulling out excuse my language those fing green straps and I went no what are you doing you've screwed us like we're never going to be able to get these green straps again now granted they were discontinued at the time this is for the aquanut by the way aqu sorry it was for the travel time he was wearing and he goes this is the Chuck Taylor of uh pek and I was like don't don't don't don't don't no no no no no but at the same time of course there's this part of me that's like I love that that now is a presentable thing which felt impossible to understand unless you yourself were into interested in a 5164 a uh steel watch with a rubber strap it seemed which are now considered Neo vintage what intarnation is going on um but that's that is that is absolutely uh a moment in in time where I saw that and I was like oh my gosh the influence is outrageous I mean the green daytonas after he did that he just m he's like I think these are going to hit yeah they hit yes they hit they hit immediately after that I mean so the I mean the the John Mayor which is what it's now called even calls it that which is which is amazing I mean that that was kind of the that of all the things that he and I have done together over the years like that's when like wow this is really a thing when people started calling the green dial Daytona which is like a pretty weird looking watch the John Mayor watching it at you know Skyrocket and value and you know he sent me a message one time he was playing he did a solo tour this past year and he was playing somewhere maybe Atlanta or somewhere and you know stadiums kind of Welcome musicians with different things somebody actually painted the green dial Daytona on the wall in his dressing room for him and he was like I love this but like it it it reached that level of of kind of exposure you know you know one one more fun thing is I went to go see John in uh in Austin when he was there last year and uh amidst many of the hinki Casio uh collaborations you know you see these little baby blue dots in the crowd or like the little white dots in the crowd um there was also the the biggest watch presence I think there was I mean millions and millions of dollars of crazy watches in a concert room uh and just dudes walking around and their wives are like yeah I don't know thank you thank you for coming up and talking to him about his PCH he's been waiting for because there's just dudes in the crowd just like oh sick like we're at a concert for John but that's the what he's sort of obviously become you know known for his passion for watches and his ability you're right to conceptualize these things is just it's that's influential right and it is and you guys have done a great job those long form videos I I still watch them I still watch one of your first videos recently I was like you know that's just it's comfort food at this point like I watch vintage hoodink I know the sound bites dude talking watches the first talking watches it's like John you can hear the music it's so ridiculous I know I know I'm not alone in that um Now with uh it's it's a fun one as as the world kind of becomes more digital for the younger audience uh in generations to shift their focus onto technology how do you see the future of watch collecting for younger audiences what do you actually think will inspire younger generations to collect yeah I I think I think we're living it right now I think obviously during covid and it wasn't just watches it was everything like it was bad investment it was Roi it was I'm going to buy a Daytona at retail for whatever 13 and now it's worth 30 which is like that's that's hard to turn down no matter who you are you know and I I think we're really starting to come away from that and I think now look I in a Dayton it's still impossible to get still an amazing watch we'd all love to have one um but I think we're starting to see and we're seeing it broadly with the rise of the independent uh obviously you know R reppy and Simone Brett will be here later this week and sane berneron and all these guys that are doing really small batch really wonderful watches but we're starting to see a lot of other guys that don't get the attention oh frankly even sites like ours the way that they should Remy cool um uh ludvic board um there there's quite a few guys out there that are really doing neat things and they're selling they're not selling at multiple times okay they might be selling but they're not trading for multiple times retail but they're still selling and when you look back at um at what it was five years ago actually Tony train and I who OST hinki radio who's over there against the wall hey Tony uh we did a video we did a podcast with Max Boer mbf who you know arguably one of the more well-known independent Brands he told us on the record and it's already even published on the site that the lm1 and lm11 which are his round watches were total dogs they couldn't sell them to save their life right and that is unbelievable because now there's a how long how many year weight list somebody around here must know multi-year weight list for sure um you know and I think like that is a perfect example of like what has changed and will mbfs always sell above retail who knows but the people buying them aren't buying them for that anymore right you know and so I think you're starting to see look Rolex Patek is always going to be strong Vashon langa cardier always going to be good but you're starting to see people buy for the the right reasons again right and I think that is really encouraging uh we're seeing some amazing excuse me amazing independent watches coming out of Asia out of China and and Japan certainly U so we're starting to see like the the generation and I don't I don't want to take too much credit here but the generation that grew up on hinki and sites like hinki are now making things and I think you start you're starting to see our sensibilities and and this type of kind of sensibility um into the product that that we're starting to see being made now I have have two more questions this this second to last question I have to ask because as much as I love mechanical watches um the rise of smart watches yeah okay and wearable tech it that has been something that really switched up uh just the the entire I think the entire world right I mean the Apple watch is the number one selling watch in the world correct um wearable tech is slowly going to you know in I think invade our space in a way sometimes in which we'll have our mechanical watch and then some sort of a wearable tech I'm wearing like an orange ring you know what I mean um do you think that there's a disruptor on the horizon that could change the watch World in a way we haven't anticipated yet you know it's it's funny I I see somebody up here wearing a 222 and an Apple Watch together uh which I I appreciate so cool that is cool um and look and we historically hinki has sold the Apple watch I was a consultant on the Apple watch I believe in it and I think when I look back at the two moments that really lived in the Zeitgeist of the past 16 years in the watch world it's Apple watch for sure number one story that we ever did on hinki was my initial review of the Apple watch and then Moon watchat you know which again made something really cool really special and again that I I'm thinking back of that same district attorney friend who doesn't give a about watches texted me saying can can I help him get a moon SWAT um you know and there are moments so fun there are moments like that that exist outside of like this little room of nerds you know and I say that lovingly um and I I think that there will be something I I don't know what it is yet are you wearing an Ora ring right now by the way yeah me too ring good recovery today Rec we should talk about our sleep score later um but um look I I think the the idea of wearable tech and and what Apple has done with with medicine and health is is going to be the game changer my father uh who is not a watch guy but owns one Rolex that he got for his 50th birthday he used to wear that watch every single day and now now he's in his late 70s and he wears an Apple watch every day because he has a hard Rhythm yet and you know there are things like that that will just continue to be real and the as Apple watch and other products continue to to gain prominence and and Power Within the the healthcare field it it it will absolutely continue to to disrupt at the same time like the watch industry is as strong as it's ever been you know and I I credit Apple watch and other things to to to get us there um so in short no uh there there's nothing that that I can think of really quickly that I would say will will change things from the tech tech side of things um I think Apple watch will continue obviously to be a huge force in the the wristwatch world yeah yeah that's good okay last question last question um when you look back on your legacy with hen key and with the watch World um what do you hope that people will remember most about your contributions to the world of horology that's a good question I mean I I I think it's events like this I don't necessarily mean this particular event but the event where you met your new best friend the event where you met your wife your girlfriend your your boyfriend whatever I think that that is what I'm not I think I know that is what I'm most proud of here um many of you guys know I I met my my wife through watches um there's another married couple that that met at hinki there are many best friends that met at hinki some of them are still employed here some of them are not uh and then that's not to speak of all the people that have met at our events and and online frankly um and so that is absolutely the thing for which I'm I'm most proud just the idea of connecting people in real life and giving them a home so to speak U look all the content all the all the watch sales all all that stuff you for which we're really kind of measured is great and I'm proud of that no question about it but I think the The Human Side of Things is really what I'm most proud of yeah man and honestly just me personally I want to say thank you for for creating what you've created and bringing so many people together and and creating a community uh of people that are passionate about art about the the mechanics behind things you you really have done something with a cohesive narrative that has really brought together something that people it's just love and it's put into these watches and at the end of the day we're just here here experiencing these things that live on beyond our lifetimes for so many generations I mean there's watches that are probably in this room that have outlived you know outlived us and will outlive us and uh it's not so much about the watches right at the end of the day it's so funny I just it just dawned on me it's not so much about the watches as it is about this community and uh I just want to thank you man thank you for everything you've done and continue to do and I'm so glad you're staying with her dinky thank you ke I appreciate it thank you guys so much