A Look Ahead To 2025 - Part I With Malaika & TanTan | Hodinkee Radio

welcome back to another episode of hinki radio today's episode of the show is sponsored by our friends at Brook Lotti the award-winning whiskey from Isa who we have partnered with here at hinki for the last couple of years stay tuned for an update later in the show on what we're up to this season hello and welcome to another episode of hinki radio my name is James Stacy We are continuing our uh December sort of recap of the year but in for these episodes and we have another one episode 4 uh for this monthly series we're also going to be looking forward to 2025 so today I'm joined Again by editor tantan Wang and style editor Malica Crawford how we doing folks doing good good and we're going to be talking all about 2025 which I'm I'm pretty pumped about you know we we opened the the previous you know the the episode looking back at 2024 and some of our favorite watches and that sort of thing we open that with sort of a a recap of just how like this time of year is kind of fun cuz you look back on the year and and re-remember things and revisit Great Moments and and that sort of thing but the other side is you get to do have these little conversations and things about what you hope next year will be like what you might want to be doing whether it's professionally what you're hoping to see from certain brands and all that sort of thing and of course we are now officially in the cycle for watches and wonders 2025 which is April 1st mark your calendars um it I think it's going to be a pretty exciting year uh but certainly all of that planning starts in December and January so it's it's uh definitely time to start considering 2025 and you know I I thought I'd kick it off like if you were taking a look at 2024 and extrapolating what do you think we're going to see in 2025 you know in the previous episode I I sat in with you two we we kicked it off by talking about the kind of trend towards mini whether it was uh cier or Lin or you know several other brands do we do we think that's something that's just going to push on or is that more of a blip on the radar I really don't know I think it's going to be more like a broadening of options and tastes which is what I think mini signals and I think mini is just one of those things that makes a lot of noise on social media but doesn't really have that much impact in The Wider World um so I think it's just more about like plurality of taste and like just extrapolating a little bit of what you'd said there like do you see mini as being more of a uh like a marker for a certain type of core Enthusiast than it is a grand commercial Endeavor from any single single brand I don't think it's a grand commercial Endeavor at all I think it's like Brands reacting to Consumer kind of interest um which I know I hop on about this all the time but the watch industry does this thing where they kind of react to the customer as opposed to like creating the trends themselves um sure so I feel like the mini thing is born from an interest in vintage and then the what BRS go off and make their modern version okay that's interesting and I I don't I wouldn't say that I disagree I I am curious like you mentioned mini being something that maybe was born out of the you know continued interest in vintage do you think we'll see any sort of change in Pace in terms of the Vintage reissue you know we've got whole brands that are you know actually going to be relaunching with product in the next couple years think like un Universal genev and I I think it's sort of an interesting thing because every now and then I've I've said it I think I've said it before like oh I think this year we won't see more and more vintage reissues we won't see as many you know dive watches that look like they were made in 1965 or something like that but I think I you know I think I've been proven wrong several times especially if we're now relaunching entire Brands like uh like Universal genev and quite possibly others I think we're at a um creative stalemate and I think that watch brands and even fashion brands to some degree like I think everyone's struggling to figure out like a new Direction design wise and it's like a reflection of the times that we're living in too and the economy and what have you politics but I also think we're at this like weird Plateau stalemate phase where vintage reissue is like much easier than dreaming up sort of a new brand Vision um and it feels like aside from the Indies which which I think tantan could probably speak to better than I could but I feel like there's just no which is actually why I'll take back some of the shade I was staring at AP because they do it they kind of do a little bit of futurism but I feel like there's there's no it's all kind of leaning on the Vintage stuff which I think everybody sort of knows is the easy route maybe actually it's not easy but it's the easier route I think it's it's becoming ining difficult to win in that thinking but when it wins I think people get you think about how excited people got about the Zenith 600 meter Revival diver the bright orange one this past year that was a very expensive watch I would say not to be unfair to Zenith probably 5 years too late still successful people still got excited about it it got a ton of attention really cool watch not taking anything away from the product tantan I am interested do you think there's any brands that are like specifically poised to just do well next year maybe that because they're on a run currently maybe because they have one or two things like especially there's some Indies right now that feel like anything they do people are going to go nuts for and I feel like that's a little bit of a different mode for the Indie world for from the last several years especially when we get into like time only stuff the Simone Bratz and the r pries and that sort of thing right 100% uh I mean it's a good question I think honestly if we talk about sort of more Classic Brands a brand that I didn't think I would say going into this podcast is Omega uh I know last time we sort of established that they're they've been killing it this year and you know even since the last time we talked they've come out with a few things that I think are really cool um and I think if they go down this route next year might be a time where they start refreshing more of their product line and you know it might kind of Define sort of this next era of Omega which I think they're doing very well at right like it's it's focusing on the modern stuff that they're good at bringing in some vintage cues and you know going back to your point on Vintage I think the issue with vintage that I had or vintage reissues uh rather that I had for the past kind of five six years was it it always was vintage reissue but not done correctly as in my problem was always they would bring out a vintage inspired dial and then somehow the case would be you know gigantic um and proportionately it just didn't make sense and it didn't work with the orig sort of designs that they're inspired from whereas stuff like the Zenith diver even micro Brands like N renchin I think they keep sticking to their path because they just turn out things in the same dimensions as you know that that were made like you know 30 40 years ago and they just find an nich audience for that uh so for me I think in that sense maybe we'll see vintage reissue kind of pushing forward uh in this new way I think people are actually finding that Brands can make things in you know thinner sizes smaller cases with modern movements which was always the I think po justification in the past which was oh we just can't make it that's like you know we don't have movements that work like that but no you can um so anyway that was a that was a bit of a tangent but going back to to sort of 2025 yeah I mean Independence to me mbn I want to see what they they kind of come out with next year um I don't know anything in insert of their product pipeline but um I think you know they've come out with a few cool things this year um including one that we didn't really get to cover but you know some great sort of artisanal hand workk with those beautiful engraved dials um but aside from things like that they haven't really done anything too crazy I think this year the LM 101 is actually kind of getting uh it's been running for a while the 2021 editions I know James you did a really cool review on that you know when it came out but oh when it had all three medals yeah yeah yeah that was I mean that's sick like to me after I guess like three four years maybe time to see another dial color that's what I would love to see I'm biased but oh my God a green LM 101 I think that would sort of be right in that that it do it for you Apex for me yeah it's wor it's it's refreshing enough it's objectively a pretty conservative safe move uh given you know everything around um but it would still feel refreshing I mean Brands just I think are still scared I think brands are realizing they're coming to a point where they need to make money right like sometimes when we discuss this stuff I think we forget that watch brands are sure they're watch makers they're designers they're creatives but they're still businesses at the end of the day um and so how do these people make money and I think what I would like to see is actually no cohesive strategy right like I'd like to see each brand figure out for themselves what they do best double down on that um and go from there which easier said than done I know yeah sure and Malik I'm I'm curious to kind of a similar question like what what brands are you sort of excited to see what they come out with what brands still like actively hold your attention um I think currently not to be so predictable but probably CER sure I mean they had a great year last year I think they need to do the same thing again to keep this pace going I think though to tant Tan's point the brands who sort of this is like the most regurgitated line in sort of watch media but the brands like Rolex who make Inc Al change to their design obviously can just stay successful throughout any sort of dip in in anything because it's like a classic product so I think you have to give props to the brands who try new things and don't stay within that sort of slightly predictable framework so who you put in that camp like an Aires yeah yeah you know parmesan is a brand I have not yet explored in great depth and I would like beautiful stuff I think that's something I sort of should look into for next year it's a little out of my budget but uh for just sort of I think they're making very beautiful and elegant product um and I think Cartier obviously just has so maybe because it's jewelry and a little bit more zeitgeisty and it's still very classic and refined by the way like when I see cier marketing imagery and ads it's very uh sort of restrained and conservative it's not splashy and like it's not fashion but it's still a little bit more on the pulse maybe uh than than some of the Swiss offerings uh in the watch landscape I think I just also I am paying attention to RM in the ladies space ladies uh they haven't really been doing much I just wonder though like the watch Market is kind of dictating maybe the output of these Brands and I always pay attention to what's going on at lvmh to sort of predict how much money anybody has um and I was listening to a podcast that was talking about overall sales at lvmh being down by 5% okay and I think watch sector was down by like three or 4% but overall or maybe it was fashion is down 5% which doesn't seem like a lot but it's kind of a big deal for lvmh who since about 2015 2016 have experienced like significant growth in the teens um so I think if you know the mothership of all holding companies is seeing a bit of a flatline or a dip that is enough to predict where marketing budgets will be next year I'll throw two brands that I think could not be more different from each other that I'm pretty curious about to see what they do next year and that's going to be jlc and oblo I think those are two two Brands where major leadership changes this year right yeah jlc new CEO new by new I mean sort of you know a little bit of old and you know returning and and with uh ublo Julian coming on um I think next year might be a good way to see where the next sort of 10 years might look like for both Brands right and I think so yeah I think jlc's catalog has struggled a little bit um I mean they've they're doing amazing things but I think overall to generalize a little bit their catalog is pretty boring um and I think I would like to see sort of a little more energy put into sort of invigorating a lot of the the sort of Sidelines um that they've they've kind of not given some love to in the past um and same with ubo like I think you know I I got to chat with Julian a little bit a few weeks ago and I know he he kind of wants to put more attention towards movements um towards watchmaking in addition to what they already do well and materials um so maybe this is like a rebirth for both Brands I think that's actually right on the money about those two Brands I do think that who blow should continue to lean into its like wild identity um because I think that's what makes the brand successful if they start relying on you know displaying elegant watchmaking and talking about movements any more than they do I'm not sure that's really going to resonate with their consumer because it and it's also the Ann 25th anniversary of Big Bang so I'm sure that hope it's a big year for them I hope that they lean into their Wild Side they don't seem to be discouraged of their Wild Side these days they're just they're holding the course really well yeah they are people need to remember that like they're not trying to steal someone who's buy trying to buy a reverso uh and you know have them purchase a big bang like that's something I think people forget all the time it's like these are completely separate customers they know who they're talking to and they see their p&l right they see their revenue every year and they can make decisions based on that and I think that's where I I sort of led the sympathetic eye towards the brand where I'm like I see what you're doing you know who you're talking to and like you should not be trying to get you know the longa guy to to buy a big bang that's not the same thing right um so yeah can can I ask you both because the jlc question is constantly going on in my head like how can they make themselves More Design able and I went to the popup yesterday and they had all these yeah oh exciting we must have missed each other uh and I went and I saw all these reverses Neo vintage reverses like the QP uh did you see those sort of lined up when you go in some pretty that's so cool I'd never seen a lot of those vintage models before but it got me thinking what do people actually want from jlc and I'd like to know what you both would like from jlc it's a hard one for me what I distinctly remember and what six in my head honestly have been the sort of limited editions that they've done in the past like let's say six seven years you know like the um all the memox stuff is really really cool and every single time I see one of like the deep sea alarm um is really really cool and every time I see one of those I'm like oh man man if only that was or something like that was in the regular catalog you know I think they've actually done really well with the Polaris I like the Polaris I think it's a little bit generic but I still like it overall as some something that's you know a customer can come in I don't want a sub I don't want an Omega I want something that's slightly higher end and you know an allaround watch and that's a great option right um but at the same time a lot of the weirder stuff that JC has done JC has such a great Archive of like weird 60s 7s designs that they could be doing and you know like they make their reverso right they're not a stranger to using iconic sort of older designs so for me drawing back to that catalog bringing a little more fun I think would be would be welcome like I I think when I go to that Boutique the staff is wonderful like I've been to the medicine one a few times staff is wonderful extremely knowledgeable product looks great but I don't ever see something that I get like very like emotionally excited about like you know other than something that's really cool when it comes to like complication or something you know nothing's really fun there and you know maybe they they look they hear what I say and they're like yeah that's not what we're trying to do so thank you you know but at the same time I wish I see a lot of their archives and so much of it was fun typography was fun case shapes were fun dials were fun you know yeah and I I agree with all this I think fun is going to be really important I also think they need to you know be very mindful of the price point uh because to competition like from 5 to 10 grand right now which is you know I think where reverso kind of sits to start maybe maybe we could go from five to say 15 give it a 10,000 window uh it's just so so so competitive uh omega's making watches that people want especially sport watches uh Rolex obviously difficult to buy tutor depending on what you want exceedingly difficult to buy at the very base end of that price point you know speaking selfishly purely from my own standpoint like I don't know deep sea Chrono was I think one of the coolest watches they ever made and it just it was too subtle for the era I don't think it was necessarily marketed correctly I just thought it was so cool to have uh like a proper sport watch in their lineup and not to take anything away from the Polaris or in many ways the master control both of which have sporty elements but I don't think I think for people who love sports watches or even if you wanted to say convert someone who was a fan of mid-century Rolex and and that sort of stuff into a modern jlc buyer which should be a logical conversion the watchmaking goes up a level the you know uh the the legacy of the brand is kind of unparalleled as the watchmakers watchmaking brand and all this kind of stuff but I I think that they don't have a go-to answer for a sport watch right like they don't have their explore they don't have I don't think they have their sub and I'm not saying that jlc should be exclusive ly interested in combating Rolex but I think it's difficult to hit the market at this price point and not have similar answers to customers you know questions about well I want this Rolex or I want this tutor or I want this Omega what would be my option with uh with a a jlc and and I think in many ways jlc kind of like got heat checked by Panerai for several years where somebody wanted to spend more money than a sub or more money than a speedy and the cool thing to buy was pan and of course panai almost has the inverse problem where they have very little that isn't quite sporty um and I think there's there needs to be I you know I I don't think it's like bringing back the Navy Seals line I I don't know that people love those I thought they were very cool but you know I think that that line you know had some had some struggles in the market but I definitely think there's evolutions of the Polaris and the master control that could bring a younger less seasoned less ready to buy a gold a brand new gold watch or QP sort of buyer um while not really alienating the folks that are buying rsos that are buying Master Ultra Thins and stuff like that I think there's a move to expand a little bit I think they are such a sort of quality Legacy yeah you know um they have so much history behind them not to be cliche and they also have this potential to be extremely desirable uh because they chir in that way if they just sort of played it slightly differently in the way that a brand like the row or like Brunell cuch chinelli it's sort of understated but the product speaks for itself and that creates lots of growth and desirability I just don't know if the product offering is enough currently but I don't think they need to be splashy and I agree with you elegant brand I think even with sport watches that needs to be their yeah goal that needs to be their goal and I agree with tanon maybe the product could be a little bit more fun and you let the product speak for itself um and that's really what drives people to and I have friends who are outside of watches who really know nothing and they know what jlc is and they know what a reverso is and I sort of see that crowd being into jlc in a big way if they just push the product that little bit further again special thanks to our partners at Brook latty for the support of hinky radio this holiday season we've partnered with Brook ly on a special giveaway that you can learn all about in the link in the article below or in the notes for this episode you might be surprised at what you see and you most definitely don't want to miss it and now back to the show tantan in your mind what is a brand that is operating at this space that is bringing the fun is it a Zenith yeah I mean Zenith has done really well this year I think the the triple calendar uh is just phenomenal uh so so good I mean their sort of retro divers their sort of reissues um have been pretty spoton um I think Zenith Zenith is doing that fun they lean into color scheme and sort of retro in a way that I think out of similar Brands is done in the most tasteful way you know they like if you think about all their weird sort of like reissues they've done like like turquoise they've done bright orange they've done red um but it doesn't feel overly cheesy and that's sort of maybe the way I would love to see jlc do something you know it doesn't have to be everything but just like one thing maybe as a surprise as a novelty um going into that I'm trying to think of other people that have sort of leaned into that I mean honestly maybe not gr Seiko pretty pretty you know continued use of color even up until like this week um you know I think they have a very interesting brand Evolution going on currently for sure I think I'm not sold on it yet I think Gro does some amazing stuff they do really cool dials but I think sometimes they do so much that I think each creative sort of entity loses its um sort of weight uh if that makes any sense uh I think like it's just so spread out out um and you know I think I joke sometimes but I actually do think it's the case where some of their dial patterns are different but they're just rotated 90 degrees and it becomes like a new dial um and you know again I don't I don't see that as shade to the company but at the same time like I think I want them to almost come out with more models that feel completely cohesive as in it's not just a 44gs case and then what dial can we put into this and then what color can we make this dial like I almost want to see Standalone things like honestly they did that with um a lot of their evolution 9 stuff when they when they re-released right you had all new cases you had the white birch was it's you know it killed right it's an awesome watch but then you start rolling out that white birch pattern to a lot of other things and it starts losing its significance so I almost wish that bran SEO would and maybe this is my my wish for everyone is just like maybe next year is about doing less maybe it's like I think someone very aptly commented last time that like and I agree uh this year was a little bit of launch fatigue and I it's the same reason why I think we all sort of glazed over some parts of the Year where you know we didn't necessarily remember a lot that happened um there is fatigue and and maybe customers are also feeling that with their wallets maybe next year just do a little less come out with four solid things throughout the year and like focus on that right give the story more time to to breathe more time to shine and and see where that goes yeah I I actually think after the response from last year we might see the opposite this year we might see a watch and wonders where every brand is swinging for the fence cuz like if you were a brand last year that always kind of struggled to get your watch beyond the Limelight of Rolex and tutor you kind of had an opportunity but I don't think people were ready for it and I don't think you just get that opportunity again and again I mean tutor very strong year I would say you know quietly and definitely some people predict it but I don't think people noticed immediately just how successful the monochrome was going to be the new kind of fully realized 41 mm black Bay uh which you know at least from reports that I've heard uh is almost unbi uh so that I mean that's a huge win for for a brand like tutor it's you know I don't think it's great for consumers forever to not be able to get something but a delay is acceptable for sure um on an in demand product you know going back very quickly to Grand Seiko uh I I really think they need a dive watch to compete at the 39 40 mm yeah the dimensions are and I love those di incred favorite yeah yeah the ones they make currently are amazing they're just massive yeah the the best one in my opinion and one that I almost bought if it wasn't for the dimension issue the 9f quartz version uh a few years ago with the yellow accents all over it that thing is sick but it's just like it's so comically big that it's not even like oh you have a small risk you can't wear this no it's just kind of big objectively um and so I agree with you man if they shrunk that down and even I don't care for Spring Drive I don't care about mechanical even if you just did a smaller quartz version of that diver I think it would be gang bust it would go Gang Busters yeah that's a weird expression I can't believe I use that like for me it just it feels like the definition of low hanging fruit if I was gr SEO because the spgh 291 is such a cool watch and it sits at a price point that they they make they can make a case that their watch is worth for sure they also have all this work in super titanium and special Steels and surface Cod like all stuff that works for a dive watch yep take all of that and just make it something for us that you know I want something roughly the size of my Pelos 39 or a sub or a c Master just something in that kind of conventional make something a little bit more conventional 43 44 when this watch was first designed that made sense for sure and I'm not saying it needs to go away as I'm sure it's commercially successful if they're still making it years later but 38 to 40 would be it just feels like they have all the data they need from the spb series that they did and the SLA series that they did they they've done a bunch they just haven't done it at gr SEO they've come like right up to the to the floor with the sla017 and those ones but I I would be very excited to see them make make make like a an undeniable entry into a very hotly contested you know space make a better Pelos take a try at it so speaking of divers there's actually one thing that I really really want to see is blong Pon make finally a standard 40 millimeter 50 Fathoms in the collection like I think it is so long overdue um I I think the best BL Pon ever produced uh sort of in the modern context is you know Shameless plug our limited edition 50 Fathoms the mil spe version from a few years back it is one of the most beautifully wearable dive watches and has like a proportion that no other brand is able to do even at that specs it's just something about that like maybe the roundness of the case and that like you know the sapphire bezel and and all that but it just looks so good and it's so comfortable in the wrist I have a small wrist it works more on me a lot of people that I know that own that watch have quite large wrists looks great on them so it's it really is that Universal thing maybe Blan Pon knows something that I don't you know maybe they know something about the sales of their stuff maybe the 45mm stuff is selling too damn well right but I know from the Enthusiast perspective I think that would be such a piece of fan service to sort of throw out right like this year we saw a lot of 42mm stuff which is an improvement right and you knows nicely it wears nicely it looks good you know can't complain about that and James I'm I'm curious to think maybe do you think that they're just saving that for the sort of limited editions um you know they know that it's a it's a thing that will guarantee to sell it's scar you know I'm not sure because you know I I think they probably had a chance to do something smaller with the 70th Anniversary Axe and they didn't um I mean they to be fair it was a bit smaller it was in the 42s it wasn't into the 40s um and I actually had to double check that to be clear but um I I I think it would be one fascinating if gr Seiko and Blan Pon just dropped really high-end nicely made 40 millimeter dive watches in 2025 modern like it would it would that those two could actually change the landscape if if they went that route I am you know I don't I don't really have a problem with the 42 uh my thing would be if they made the 40 could they do it at a price point like not on a bracelet to really make a compelling alternative to like an entry-level sub normally Blan Pond kind of sits one kind of rung up in terms of pricing from a Suba um but I think it would be fascinating to see if they could if they could stay in the four-digit range top end of the four digit range and make something that people really wanted a steel simple 200 met 50 Fathoms etc etc Malica what's your view on on sort of the 50 Fathoms is it in your eyes do you see it as like a more interesting Niche thing compared to the Submariner like a like a step up as an option or do you sort of is it a completely separate conversation I think it's a totally separate conversation um but I do I think it's it's a cool in my view it's like a niche it's a niche product which is funny but like in 2024 I think it's definitely a niche corner of the market I think you definitely see them less than subs or or even Le much less even watches that look like 50 Fathoms watches even from other brands are less popular than you know submarin or lookalikes from other brands as well for sure I feel like if we think of this sort of conventional watch category which seems to be booming um to your point about the black Bay monochrome because it's a great watch but it is exceedingly conventional um that's literally best talent yeah um I suppose that's what people are going for at what price point do you have to sort of stop being conventional it's a great question I don't yeah I don't know because at some point you definitely have to be competitive which I think is difficult correct I just don't think you can ever put a blond p 50 Fathoms in the same sentence as a Rolex Sub it just it the Rolex Sub Mariner is like one of the most recognizable products let alone watches of all time like you just nobody I know outside of watch enthusiasm knows what a bla p is unless they're like above the age of 50 for me for me they they're like they're inexorably linked because of the you know the coming out the same year kind of the early earliest expression of the dive watch that sort of thing but one has remained deeply competitive deeply conventional and owned its entire market and that's the sub and the bonon hasn't and I think part of that's a pricing thing part of it's you know the power of Rolex part of it you know I think it's probably a a 20 part sort of scenario that caused the Delta there because look you rewind the clock there's a there's a you know in an infinite number of universes there's one where like the doca sub is the Submariner and the Rolex one is is the niche right like these are all watches that kind of came from the same impetus would have been worn by similar people at the time but then 50 60 70 years later that's not the same anymore no I I understand your argument in that if we think about the history of the sub and the 50 Fathoms and 70 years ago cont totally but the Delta could be larger and I wonder how they sort of is there even any how do you bring that back like how do you I don't know that's obviously the million dooll question yeah I also like is Blanc Pon in a position to really to actually want to be a watch that replaced the sub like do they is Blanc Pon a watch brand that's led by a dive watch probably not right they need to have watch it's definitely a big part of their thing I this watch was the next era I wanted to get into for sure oh for sure oh that's not really no because I don't definitely think it does okay I'm interested to know your thoughts because I thought that release maybe because it lives in the shadow of moon watch I don't know but but what is that I don't I'm not sure about that I mean in my circles people adore that I love that watch I have one the ocean of storms the the black one and sort of the the circles that I keep this was a chance for people who adore Blan Pon but don't have $150,000 for a dive watch okay um to to check it out and and to kind of have that buzz and I definitely have met people in the last year since since those models were released in the last two years that like it was their first quote unquote like watch brand they thought about researched went out found bought and love and they have this like very strong emotional connection to it um that I think you know maybe wouldn't be replicated if you were a deep Enthusiast who' been doing it for a decade and and you wanted to check one out I think that context is different but I think for somebody fresh to the market these Swatch collabs the specifically the Omega and the block Pond ones and the speedy and the um the scuba 50 are like they're drugs they're just they're they're your first your first taste but for Blan Pon there was a lot of people who bought that watch who didn't know the brand before for sure and I suppose that's obviously why Moon Swatch comes before right because it's a little bit better known uh and then you can sort of you can replicate the interest hopefully with the other collabs that come after but I do think there is something to be said for making something accessible which then Sparks a curiosity and sort of helps people to you know do more research become more actively engaged I do celebrate that completely anecdotally though I've don't get me wrong I love this watch I have the I bought the orange sort of no Red uh take on on on this watch I've just never seen someone not in a watch circle like wearing that in public I see Moon swatches every single day yeah and I'm talking about around the world like last year in Italy everyone and their grandmother was wearing a moon Swatch like I'm not even joking like yeah Moon Swatch everywhere and like I've never I haven't seen someone like not at a watch meet up or not you know oh like oh like let's talk about you know the new releases like outside of that Circle I I haven't seen one in the public and maybe that's just me but like I'm curious if you guys feel that way like no I haven't seen one either I outside of Enthusiast circles I I see Moon Swatch every day yeah I I think I've seen two in the wild like just at a restaurant or whatever and uh and that too would be outweighted by hundreds of moon swatches that you just see on the street All Summer Long yeah no no sleeves in the way I mean you can find a moon Swatch pretty quickly uh they're they're they're prolific um but okay so look we've got like maybe two minutes left what would you love to see what what would be your personal dream brand for Swatch to collab with to make a 200 version of a watch where this would be the one where regardless of the heat the hype the lines you would want one what would it need to be well it's got to be in the Swatch group so well let no no let's say let's say they Branch out this is successful enough that that it's any any any brand you love like tan is it a Swatch langa L1 no I think for me it's a Swatch jumbo I was just about to say that it's like a Swatch it's got to be AP it's got to be bioceramic royal would be mind melding no but I why aren't people talking about that for a second like I think there's been there's like rumors yeah yeah um I nothing to be clear that I've ever heard that came from a credible Source just people saying kind of like War now wouldn't that be if they did it they should do that one it's The Logical choice right yeah you think like little Swatch tank would be amazing no nobody wants that no you don't think so you don't think that would become like the summer watch for three months and then then nobody would want it I don't because it has to be a sports watch oh okay in my mind I think it should be because I think dress watches if you take away the sort of elegant proportion little Santos a little Santos could be cool what kind of what kind ofic SOS on a bioceramic bracelet I would I'm sort of a little bucks at that point it's freaky to get my head around but I could get there you could maybe get me there yeah yeah yeah I mean the another cliche would be just like a bioceramic Submariner right yeah like it would be like it would be I mean it's I I say this only because I think my brain would break if I think like an Explorer would be cooler yeah oh yeah that's a great Point yeah yeah I'm not sure about because they already did the 50 Fathoms and you don't do the Daytona because they already did the Speedy yeah Explorer would be cool exp that that one we can definitely say is never ever ever going to happen so would be really cool is like different colored op dials uh yeah that would be cool but that's obviously never ever going to happen so I think that's going to happen but never going to happen is kind of a fun way to end a show about what we think will happen in 2025 uh tantan and Mica thanks so much for coming on the show and chitchatting about 2025 I think I think it's going to be a really exciting year I'm feeling super positive about the position in the industry and uh and kind of their ability to make product that enthusiast want to buy that seems to be the tone of the last few years is like find your audience and actually make the watch for them and I think if that strategy continues we should see pretty solid watches at every price point so thanks so much for coming on thank you thanks James