Alessandro Fanciulli Turned His Passion For Watch Collecting Into A Career | House of Craft

I must say that when I see all the faces I know now why I didn't retire because how can anybody retire from a passion I don't know our economy and the gender inequality will catch up as a brand we better be prepared for that last time I saw you you were actually talking about watches that belong to your father yeah this is all your fault yeah you guys I said it in the video and my intro thanks for bringing it up but this is all your fault I didn't care about Watchers until you guys put all these videos gaming the algorithm pretty much yeah alesandro Mr a thank you for coming all the way from Milan uh mikica of course thank you for coming all the way from the Upper East Side from the Upper East Side yes alesandro I know you were here this morning talking with with Ben about one of your first loved Universal genev can you uh this is kind of where I want to start with you because you're a collector you're a dealer you're a charmer if I may say this can you talk a little bit about for those who don't know how you got into watches uh your kind of journey into into making this a full-time Endeavor of yours yeah it happens kind of randomly I think it just if evolved from a oh wow that's cool I think Ben is hiding back there but he's a big factor in my love because it started you know around 2010 I started looking online hinki was just a thing it wasn't like today it was much much more underrated not a lot of people were talking about watches it used to be something very very hidden you kind of could make it still your own thing and it just evolved from there I fell in love with watches fell more in love with watches and became an obsession I was like oh wow I'm not so crazy cuz there's other people like me who also love them just as much um and then it just slowly evolved into this thing and here we are I think you we're all here United out of the same passion so do you remember your first watch yes not proud of it it was um so I started buying on E on eBay small little watches it was a 50 Buck watch it was a stoa I bought it from Poland it arrived the bezel was fake the hands were replaced it was horrible but I still have it and it was one of those things that like you you buy it and you're like huh it sucks like you know you see the pictures you think it's beautiful and then you're like no it's not and then it just uh slowly evolved and I bought better stuff and my first UI was a pawn RoR which I know a lot of guys here are fans of and yeah that opened a whole new rabbit hole and then can you explain a bit to the audience like we know you cuz we see you on our Instagram feed pretty much every day um but can you break down like what is it that you do exactly cuz I'm actually still confused a little yeah my dad also is confused um so I have a pretty simple life I wake up I'm like huh what should I do today um make a few posts and then travel the world mostly looking for beautiful watches I'm studying writing little articles for people just enjoying life hi Mike um we're I don't know you know it's weird like I ask because I feel like you're known for doing different things right you're like a bit of an Instagram sensation in the watch space you have like more of a kind of visual eye than a lot of people like I think your kind of your look is pretty distinctive so how did you get there cuz it's not just like typical dealer style like it's giving a you know creative perspec I think there been a big research on my part for like Aesthetics you know I wasn't I was into really much more basic stuff and then it just evolved and I think as a collector it's your duty to grow your aesthetic taste so what makes sense to you what appeals to you and then what appeals to to you personally and you can make your own I think a lot of people today they want to buy what other people think is cool and I always tell people buy what you think is cool but make it your own to me that's a big part of being a collector is making something finding a niche and then making it your own so for me it was uh a big Endeavor I I only bought steel watches at the beginning and now I'm full full on the gold and you actually wear more jewelry than me yes I'm and I urge every guy here buy a little piece of jewelry it's the best I'm almost tempted to say it's I'm having more fun with jewelry now with watches cuz it's you can find so many unique pieces and there was so much more design and crazy elements so I think that's a big part um but when it comes to my aesthetic taste I think I get a lot of messages like yeah this is such a u watch and I always tell people like sure I love gold and you know diamonds and stuff but there's there's also a big filter on my part there's few watches like you can present a 100 watch and I'll just pick one that hits every spot right and I think that's a big part of you know that filter you use I think you know people resonate towards my filter what do you think your filter is like an innate thing you just never like bar like specs and Rarity and provenance blah blah blah like aesthetically is it just like an innate feeling yeah I think there's proportions that speak to you and you can really make you know wow okay then you know I was just talking to Ben about the red zepper zeppy and there's something proportionately about that watch that is absolutely perfect like there's not a single element that you can say oh this is not good about it and I think of course uh there are people who like look at art collectors there's art collectors who have amazing taste and then art collectors were just really good at picking what's you know maybe good for the market I'm definitely more of the on in my opinion like good tastes I'm not the best let's say Speculator I don't have friends who bought like crazy pieces that have you know made a lot of sense economically I'm more of it just okay that's beautiful and I try to find something that's really beautiful for me Mika you mentioned it both of you are are dripping in Gold if I may say uh it's a little bit uncommon for watch watch collectors honestly often you see a simple steel watch as you mentioned it and not much else on on The Collector I'm curious if you could talk a little bit both of you about how jewelry having an appreciation for the craftsmanship that goes into jewelry I mean maybe you'll talk about this Mr a uh you see these some of these vintage Paddock bracelets from the 1970s let's say AP bracelets and you just see and feel the craftsmanship the way the thing melts on your wrist but can you talk a little bit about how jewelry and watches and appreciating the craftsmanship of both informs how you collect both um I sort of feel like it's this is I didn't know I'm going to try and say this politely um I feel like jewelry and watches are almost one and the same to me mhm um and I don't really I guess since working more intensely in the watch space now I'm coming at it from a different perspective when it comes to specs and sort of movements but I I just look at watches in the way I look at jewelry and whatever I think works with my vibe and like that's how I do it there's not much to it really I agree it's it's creating your own Vibe out of and I think all the boys at work are always like we don't understand your taste like what is it and they're like we think you might like this but we don't know and I'm like yeah I'm sorry it's just like an instinctive thing yeah it's just like yes or no and yeah cuz I'll I'll sort of I'm quick to have an opinion so I'll be like oh this watch is offensive like how dare they and they'll be like oh but we thought you'd like this and I'm like oh you just didn't get it which sounds awful but like that's yeah I don't know it's anate Alexandre maybe I'll phrase it a slightly different way for you uh talk a little bit about your Evolution you mentioned steel sports watches Universal genev the pole router and things like that and if I look at you now you mentioned all of the gold if I look at some of the things you post a lot of gold a lot of shaped watches a lot of bracelets can you just talk about that Evolution as a dealer and a collector sure I think back in the day I was really into chronographs then 2016 happened start stop reset at Phillips um that peaked prices became inaccessible for a lot of stuff and as a young collector I was like oh all this stuff is cool but I can't believe B it and then it evolved into me always wanted to find something that nobody was really talking about nobody was really looking at and then I got into like more jewelry style pieces and then I don't know what happened with gold but just one day I thought I woke up and I was like gold is the most beautiful material there is like if you just get an Ingot of gold and you hold it in your head there is a I know I always talk about salt and people being and this not a woke thing huh but like um I think there is you know I'm Italian I'm from the Mediterranean like back in the Roman times gold was a very important part of our history and gold as a material has always been part of like integral part of humanity and how people have traded people have spent money and I think there is like I get it why I can see why it's always been an attraction there's no intrinsic value to Gold like there's nothing that makes so much sense but even back in the people gave value to it and then it just evolved I bought my first bracelet which is uh this one right here with the parad I think a lot of people love that on Instagram I get a lot of messages for it and it's no brand it's Anonymous made in Italy it's not something that you know you can just go out and buy and that's also cool I always tell people buy something that like is you you're the only one who has it so I bought the bracelet started falling in love made my mistakes then I bought more stuff then I was like oh cool but like not so cool and then it just like evolves and then the way something is beautifully made I think has no barrier you can go into a beautiful car beautiful piece of jewelry a beautiful work of art like everything just has the same energy and salt to it and I think when you find something that speaks to you and then you can transmit that to people that's when it really resonates with everybody let's talk about Universal Geneva a little bit I know perhaps your first love but what was it about that brand that you latched on to uh specifically that made you sort of just buy all of them I wish there was a crazy moment I was like home Roes were kind of rare and they weren't popping so much online I was like okay wow I want to have all of them but then you you know you're like okay I have two of the same I don't need the third one um I think to me it was the fact that there were so many different designs so many different elements that you could collect so many parts of that brand that nobody had seen and there's a lot of unique pieces from Universal out there there's a lot of watches that like you don't see the same configuration twice and to a young collector who didn't have a crazy budget you could like go out and buy something that nobody else has and really make it your own and I think that's a big part of being a collector is really finding something that speaks to you and then making it your own not just following a sort of trend being like Oh everybody has that I want that it's like no like let's let's find something that speaks to me like understand what it what it is about that object that speaks to you and I think that's a big part of also of growing as a collect like collecting is also a personal Endeavor like you grow as a collector you grow as a person you grow your aesthetic taste like I've learned so much about life through collecting you know I realized oh I can sit in a chair but I can sit in a beautiful chair and it doesn't have to be the most expensive it just has to be like something that is beautiful to me and that was Universal to me it was something that I could really make my own and that's yeah that's the most beautiful part about the brand you mentioned chronographs you mentioned the pole router they're known for a lot of things uh any specific Avenues right now in Universal genev that you're you're really interested in or you're discovering and learning more about still um probably I've really went deep in it even made a little website about you know Universal it's called Universal genev doino where you can find out a lot about the brand I think I've explored most of the brand there's some obscure pocket watches that I've been trying to find that I can't actually funny story I found a crazy so in the 30s 40s they were coming out with these new movements and they made pocket watches with the sapphire case bags which is crazy for watching the 30s 40s so I have one a couple chronographs like this and I I found the only known time only one like this so I bought it off of eBay in the UK it arrived home and this hurts my heart just to say this but I called my mom at the time I was away I was like can you just open FaceTime me and make sure like you know the watches arrive safely because you know it's eBay you never know facetimes me the watch is all good and I think she had this sort of moment like she puts it back in the box and then I come back home a few weeks later I'm like where's the Box no box and I'm like so hopefully it didn't go destroyed but um yeah never saw another one and the box is gone so many years ago I'm still sour about this that's making me sad yeah so sad no no I'm an orphan now uh I don't know where to go from that yeah I left I left home after that we don't talk it's a whole thing finally you Christmas is complicated so pocket watches you bring up an interesting point a lot of great Universal genev pocket watches there was a great scene in Ferrari actually that you probably remember right they uh they used a few Universal genev pocket watches that I think they sourced from from some friendly Italian dealers that you know I'm sure uh I want to ask you both about this but friendly Italian dealers oh uh is there anything any scoop here non non wrist watches uh something you hear from watchmakers a lot is how much they're inspired by pocket watches the craftsmanship the large balance Wheels the the chronometry that they have but uh for you as a collector allesandro first pocket watches other non-risk watches how you think about adding them to to part of a holistic collection I think it's the Endeavor of finding the perfect let's say d layouts in case this like okay case less but when it comes to dials I think pocket watches have by far the most beautiful dial designs they had much more space to experiment with and much more Liberty to add elements without it suffocating the piece so I don't know if you guys know but I'm a huge pocket watch fan I like hoard them but they're so inexpensive and so beautiful to just hold like okay completely useless fair enough you know some people have cool chains I don't wear them but they're so beautiful and if you find the right design something that talks to you they can be like just a hold in your hand makes sense you don't do anything else with them it's there's no point to them except for like being beautiful but yeah being a bigger object they have much more space just you can experiment so much with the design and there's so many beautiful ones out there like I feel like everybody should go out just go on eBay find one that's beautiful buy it and then hopefully you'll fall into that trap mark on our website will tell you all about pocket watches American is obviously a big uh a big love of his but for you we mentioned Universal genev any other brands specifically I mean even Paddock pocket watches right are not not that expensive for the no the craftsmanship the design the watchmaking that go into them but do you have any sort of places you you'd recommend starting if people are are legitimately interested in exploring pocket watches yeah I think there's a bunch of obscure brands from the 40s 50s like Esa made some beautiful ones do made some beautiful ones we were talking about um chevet re sheepy before this a little bit great independent watchmaker he had an Esa he pulled out of his when I visited him in Geneva a month or two ago he pulled an Esa watch out of a drawer and he showed us the lines on the case and he's like this is what inspired the case on my minut inert and you can legitimately see uh how the lines inspired what he's doing Joel was supposed to sell that watch to me and then he went to Geneva should that he B I was like typical Joel shout out so funny enough I think he it's going to be hard to admit but I went I met red Ze back in the day and he was designing his first red zepper heavy piece and he showed me some like prototype dial layouts and then I went to plal which is a little flea market down in Geneva and this guy had like five pocket watches super cool designs scooped them up like really 50 bucks each like it's crazy and then I went back to Red zip and I was like I gifted him a pocket watch and I and I told him like I think this is what you're trying to do with the dial but you haven't figured it out and Loosely speaking that his dial is based off of that pocket watch and it just you know proves that these designs are so contemporary and like a hundred years later they're just so beautiful still so yeah I'm a big fan also another big fan of skeleton Jagger watches table clocks they are so absolutely fantastic to have like on your desk somewhere in the house my girlfriend's a little crazy now I have like 10 of them around the house she's like okay I think that's enough I'm like no we need more but I think those are also beautiful um and yeah I can't really relate to the pocket watch thing no shade it's a GU thing yeah uh I don't know there's something about I mean I understand it as like a point of reference and I think it can be like a beautiful inanimate object in that way but I just personally don't relate to it actually clocks I find slightly more beautiful yeah I think I fell down like a Cartier mystery clock Rabbit Hole okay yeah and then I was like uh these are clocks now this I can get yeah cuz it's so ornate and the I think the word craft really really if you really want to talk about craft get into some car clock different budget different budget I mean these were always you know in the 20s and 30s these were commissioned by yeah the Vander like the people that have their names on of course but doesn't mean I can't appreciate it no of course of course of course um I don't own one but I can flick through the pag and admire yeah or V visit an auction preview um actually I think I called Paul boot trace and he was like it's not going to be here in time because it's got its own seat on the plane in business mhm so I missed that one but um clocks Atmos clocks I don't know there's something very romantic to me about a sort of Highly crafted clock and I can relate to that I think a bit more than a pocket watch I can see that totally I think it's also a it becomes a piece of furniture a piece of design you can have it in the house libr it's really beautiful like you guys have a jazz one at the hinki office I saw this morning so beautiful just looks amazing well yeah cuz it becomes like a of totally yeah it's like it's a piece of design whereas a pocket watch is more of a yeah you just throw them in a box in a safe and you don't really right like I get it like I don't really I just take them out once every now and then but the cool thing about pocket watches is I have a few that I complement with the wristwatch so I found the wrist watch and then I found the counterpart in the pocket watch but it's really a geek thing I won't lie to you like I get it's between you and your pocket watch yeah totally it's an intimate sort of okay you know I have you you know you're with me for the time being but it's yeah it's like a serious collector thing which I respect I think for me you know obviously I've seen a lot of wristwatches I bought a lot of ones there's some crazy pieces I'd love to find and own one day but with pocket watches it's like okay nobody's ever seen this like the design is crazy if I show a lot of people they like okay design is beautiful but yeah it's mostly just actually Tony and I saw some cool pocket watches obviously at the protect Museum with our good friend Roy and I could get into some of those weird sapphire crystal ones those were pretty cool I will say yeah it is cool how you see the past in forming the present and the future the thing you pick up on pretty quickly put it all together yeah alisandra I want to talk about the hunt a little bit you just mentioned some watches you you would like to own uh I want to start by asking it this way though you told a story recently uh earlier this summer you traveled to a small auction house in par to I believe inspect potentially bid on a Paul Newman Daytona 6241 I think correct and you had some interesting points to make about the proliferation of just I think information the ability for anyone to access uh small auction houses see bid on rare Paul Newman daytonas like this for example sure and how seeing that watch in a catalog online versus when you went to inspect it in person uh your different impressions of the watch and just kind of the implications that that might have on the market at large and what it means for collectors so maybe you can kind of fill in the gaps of the story I'm telling there and then kind of what you think that means about the the current state of the market so a few years ago in Milan Little Italian auction house this unbelievable 6263 mark one Paul Newman comes up for sale estimate is crazy low and you know pictures look like it's a barn find and then I went to see it it's like the best example ever so much so that you know the watch was estimated like one to 200k at the time was probably like a half a million watch a gentleman from London a big dealer uh I see him in the room in this like you know really small not impressive auction house and I'm like okay wow this is serious and at the time like I sold all my stock I had at the time cuz I was like okay I need to have this watch clearly like was nowhere near enough and then I called a bunch of friends dealers and I said okay I you want to partner with me and we all said okay let's go for like crazy budget then when I see this guy from London I said okay just there goes this one and it sold for almost 800,000 at the time which was probably a record and within five minutes he had it sold for like over a million because it was like the best example ever and you know I've never seen such a barn fan example ever again it was really one of those things like once in a lifetime today I think dealers all the dealers that came before has probably found these barn finds today it's much harder and so earlier this summer I went to Paris it was beautiful I thought it was the same sort of condition one but then when I arrived I noticed the bracelet was serviced the bezel was probably a mark too late but that could happen um the handset was replaced the one of the Looms had been relumed and you know all of a sudden you want you think it's like the perfect Barn fine example but then if you're going to overpay you don't really want to overpay for this one but still it was a beautiful example so I said okay at the right price it's still is interesting and you know these are beautiful watches desirable everybody knows and wants PA newans but I assure you there's not a line of people who's we're going to spend like a quarter million for a watch like this even big dealers they have quite a few in stock they're not like selling every second and to my like the watch obviously the es mod was like 50k starting so obviously it's going to fly but it's sold for like a really strong price like more than some examples in better condition are selling with like top top dealers and I was under bitter and I think for a moment I let my ego say like okay one more okay like one more and then I really had to say okay stop like you don't need you're not going like you don't need to win this one and then I'm happy cuz you know it really sold for too much but it it was this moment in which I also went to D it's this French like Hotel it's called a hotel it's not a hotel but it's like this huge building where they have like 15 live auctions every moment and there was a beautiful Cartier in it was a garage EST State sale they were selling like used plates and stuff for like 20 bucks and there was this like beautiful Cartier that sold for a crazy amount also then I went upstairs to another auction there was another beautiful watch sold for a crazy amount and all of a sudden I'm on Instagram and I see my good friend Mike Novo who's right here with us today posting a video like oh this is how I bid online and he's showing everybody like and I get it he has his audience he's doing his thing but then it hit me and I'm like okay no wonder like I guess before there used to be dealers and privates and it was a very separate world then the internet came and it sort of bridged the gap between the two and I think auctions used to be much more for dealers to buy stock that then they would sell but today obviously it's much easier for anybody in this room to just go on a website and you know in their mind they say okay if I'm going to buy it from a dealer there's in you know a person in between so that's a margin in between so that's a margin I could cut if I buy it directly from the source so I think today everybody's looking for a sort of deal at auction and this is BR this sort of Gap and so everybody's hunting and you know there's been a huge increase in demand like car has gone crazy and there's a reason why there's a lot of people looking everybody's pushing prices up dealers are not going to let anything go cheap and you know the private says okay I can buy it directly at auction so I don't need to you know I'm cutting a middleman I'm getting the real deal the issue is you don't really know what you're buying like I see these auction houses they're taking like you know Nokia pictures from 10 meters apart and they're like okay Cartier and it sounds for like record price and you know I both watches that auction they arrive and you're like okay nowhere near as described like it's way too over poolish adal has cracks and they didn't disclose this um and I think that's it's auctions are definitely going to take a huge role in the upcoming years I know a lot of people who when they have something special they're like okay just throw it at Ocean cuz it's probably the fairest way to sell it to give everybody you know to give it its full full price of course if it's something like not so special you'll lose that auction but for the special stuff it's all going to pop up at auction and you know Mike knows how crazy these carties are selling online because everybody's looking and you know it only really you know these a glomerate websites invaluable uh Etc they make it so easy and so some people you know you know they're they comfortable on their couch they see a watch pop up and they're like oh I'll just throw a few bids and then you're registered you went to the hle sending your passport and documents and this and that so you're like okay I might as well throw in a few extra bids and I mean this is just pure economics you know like you have a potential economic upset and then you know competition comes and then everybody you know it flattens out like at the beginning used to be every like we were getting good deals and now the margins are slowly thinning I feel like you then have to differentiate yourself from a wide pool of people selling things but that's sort of part of the like success right like that's why Mike is doing so well that's why you're doing so well I think you have to find a way of communicating to a very large audience that like doesn't get lost so I sort of kind of appreciate and you kind of have a bit of a click in Geneva like the watch boys um you got shouts out to high St got to shout out the boys um I sort of think that Community Vibe you have going actually works in your favor quite dramatically and it seems like you're carving out a bit of your own lane like do you think that's helping yeah I just spoke to Ben about this um there is a certain Charisma behind people and you know if if you're going to buy something might as well buy it for somebody you like you know I think it's uh it's important that you represent what you're selling and people come to you because like you're that filter you've spent time looking selecting like I say no to infinitely more watches than I say yes to and of course like there's a little commercial part uh of me that like you know just buys simple watches that like you know caras there's nothing exciting about that but I think it's the most sld watch over the last few years like they they're crazy there's always a constant demand for it and it's a good entry point into CTI but uh for sure the what we're doing in Geneva the boys of heist out it's it's a bit of a rebellious movement of kids that say Hey watchmaking is you know traditional and everything but it doesn't have to be boring and we have the utmost respect for watchmaking like we really do like all the guys are crazy about this and everybody knows their they've all studied it learned it we know everybody within the industry we've gone to the manufacturing we know how they're made we went to see the third party guys that supply all the parts like we really know what we're talking about so when I say this is beautiful I don't just say it like superficially like oh this is pretty no like we've learned and mastered and understood what it means to be beautiful yeah I think there's an audience out there who are sort of not as in formed as they'd like to be and they're learning and they can really resonate with your content and Mike's content and it's like you're kind of the filter for these people in the same way that like hinki has become that it's sort of a similar you're just helping people find cool stuff I think that's that's our role like I'm a first and foremost I'm a collector then I'm probably a curator and I'm a I don't even like to say a dealer but you know I sell out of because I love to buy and then I have a bunch of them and I'm like okay I'm gonna you know sell them because and of course it's it's become a job which is crazy because I don't like to have a job you know I'm always you know this it's the Italian in you okay back backstory to me I worked in finance so I've done my fair share of wake up at 600 and go to the office and like I'm not cut for that just like the modern world doesn't speak to me so like I've had my job I've done a bunch of really random jobs um and I did a lot of stuff and then so also when it comes to dealing for me it's you know I take it very very like people you know we joke and we have fun in Geneva but like I'm very serious when it comes to to what I do and it but it's my role as a curator to also not teach but like expand the knowledge to show people like hey this is beautiful but like let me explain why like just take it in your hands see it like love it and then I think that's just so important important and I think there's a whole audience out there who Maybe Can't resonate with a hinky post that could resonate with you and vice versa like I think there's space for all of it and like the heist out thing is Niche but it's not really that Niche like I think it speaks actually to a pretty large large audience yeah what what's cool about what they're doing like Maxim is a he's a fashion guy but then he fell into watches but first and foremost he's a into fashion and he's bridging that Gap and look at culture today you see you look at music and how Travis Scott is making music but then he makes clothes but then he makes an AP and you know it's this full circle moment and today I think the culture is really 360 like all the big like design we just had design weic in Milan a few weeks ago and what was interesting is for the first time this year all the big fashion brands were exposing you don't hear about Prada making Furniture but they're super present at design week why because their clientele wants that you want to be part of the Prada mentality and it's interesting there is this like full circle moments like brands are getting into the culture and arts and everything well the lines are blood right it's like sport sports music art fashion it's all one and the same today the same guy that listens to Travis SC will wear ni pants who will love morami art and then maybe he'll buy a hublo because you know that speaks to him and yeah I think with internet every all of this is like blurred together which is also something that has to be treaded a little more lightly you can't throw everything into it just sure yeah yeah alesandro I associate you mainly primarily with with dealing vintage watches collecting vintage watches but you mentioned visiting manufacturers and Switzerland seeing what they're doing being impressed by it uh I'm always curious people that sort of view watches through a vintage lens are there particular brands that on the manufacturing side of things on the modern level like when you visited them you you said to yourself wow this is really impressive because even perhaps it reminds you of what you love about the charm of vintage and all of that type of stuff for sure P was amazing to visit I love the brand love the history love the P yeah um P yes P um we didn't know that everybody on this stage likes P that wasn't obvious yeah um though they were impressive what about them um just there's a they've lost it a little bit today but they still have this very tight relationship between the Jeweler and the watch maker so there's this crossover between the the guys who are setting the the stones and the watchmaker comes in with the watch and they help each other so I thought that was really beautiful and they have the most amazing manufacturing when it comes to bracelets and all that stuff that was cool I think jger has the most beautiful manufacturing facility and they still you know this thing with the wax and on the silicon and all that that's kind of a crazy story I thought that was beautiful um I couldn't go but the boys went to shart and it looked beautiful they work with a lot of gold so they like got to play with like huge inot and I was kind of jealous yeah and then I visited I recently visited seet ater in Geneva that's a completely different world it's like a dude who just sits there and creates this crazy watch but it's just him and a few other crazy guys that you know that like him enough to say like okay I'll sit down and work with you and it's so intimate and it's so fascinating how it's just a guy sitting at a desk and he can just come up with these ideas and execute them I think that's extremely fascinating and uh yeah what do you think about modern brands or Brands today rather and this whole reissue culture are you sort of into that I mean I know it's Case by case but what's your viewpoint on that I think it's good what they're doing they're trying to obviously vintage watch as you can can't wear them every day in the same way you could wear a modern REO and I get it like when summer starts to approach I put on my oyer Perpetual pink one or yellow have the two and that's all I wear and I love the idea that I can just go swim jump like I've destroyed them but I just wear those and I have a lot of respect for my vintage pieces so I don't really get to wear them much um so I get that reissues make it so that you can have a vintage feel and wear it every day me personally I'm more into finding the original one and usually for the same price or less you can find the original I think it's good they're making vintage accessible to everybody and we talk more about vintage I think with Brands today they lack the sort of song and energy that the Vintage pieces have like you give two of the same and one is slightly colder slightly you know less of a it gives you less of a buzz it doesn't like make that hard skip a beat you're like no it's more like oh cool but uh what are your thoughts on the polo the new one cool super cool but I mean it's beautiful they made it they made a good job they didn't put a date thank god um the price is expensive but I think it's really expensive to make because like you have to start with a lot of gold to melt like get to that size and everything what I think is since it's such a limited piece they could have made like the you know polos used to be extremely versatile when it comes to gem setting to making sort of unique pieces and I thought P was going to come maybe they will but they were going to come out with like a crazy lineup of like imagine just baguettes all over and like a fully iced out like some crazy designs but what I think they're lacking is like the creative freedom to do that because before P was really owned by the family and you know Eve P would just go and say oh let's make one like this make one like that make he would talk to the Jewelers there was this like beautifully intimate relationship between the two and I'm like okay cool they came out with the polo but they had so much creative freedom to just make unique pieces just you know go to VV VIPs and say okay will make you a crazy one and just you know I think that's what I was a little disappointed about they could have but maybe they will come out in the next few years but I thought they could have played so much more with the whole uniqueness factor of it it's true I mean it was essentially a customizable watch for VIPs back in the day and now they're making they say they're making about a 100 a year so they're still reserving it for VIPs the other thing that I think you're kind of getting at is they re-released it in 38 millim it's a big chunk of gold if we're being honest uh but when they released it back in the 70s for the first time they released it in two sizes right which also made it appeal to a wider variety of clients and I don't think I really would have loved to see them release it in in a couple of different sizes uh at the outset to like make a statement this is what we're doing and it would have differentiated it from say the Vashon 222 for example uh it which some people have compared it to because of the price if nothing else yes at the same time I think it's good that Brands don't give consumers too much Choice like if B says this is how we make it okay that's how you make it and I love the idea that like that's it you get one choice cuz you know you have to educate the consumer to come towards you you don't have to go towards the consumer otherwise as a brand what does it say about you like you're you know confident in your in your choices so I think they came in with this model maybe yeah they would have could have made a 31 mm for a younger or more you know smaller risk clientele but I wouldn't complain about the size I think there's more in in the industry in general today I think there's a lack of creativity and brands are investing so much when it comes to marketing to journalists towards everything except for creativity and that's my one big concern with Brands today well they letting the market like Drive Drive the decisions right instead of I that's how I feel I feel like the brands aren't making sort of creative decisions because they're too scared of not appeasing the customer but I think it's a sort of building they will come situation right yeah and then you know internet's such a easy tool for everybody to express their opinion and say like oh that was trash like if I may the hinki travel clock I got to play with it today and it's actually really cool and yes it was five grand you Sur cuz it got so much online and I was like huh this is cool it's not easy to make like really it's not so easy to make so but I think that got such a backlash but people should just be happy that they made it you don't want to spend five grand don't buy it but don't trash people you know trying and actually doing something and I think today when it comes to Brands they's so scared so scared of making something that people trash like you know back in the day like look at Andrew GMA okay he made a collaboration with in 1969 with Omega was like unique pieces 55 watches and 30 pieces of jewelry 31 and you know what his marketing strategy was he flew to every continent with the whole collection only one piece could be sold per continent this was like a million pounds worth of jewelry back in 1969 and he traveled the whole world through the craziest parties in the craziest cities and like only one was sold and they're the craziest watches you will ever see in your life and that's genius to me and he didn't care what anybody thought or said like you know 99.9% of people would be like that's way too much and this is in 1969 like people were getting to the Moon he was making like this crazy stuff and I think he made he was a genius and he said I'm going to make this and if you want to buy it cool if you don't cool but just appreciate that I made it and I think this is also what yeah well I think that's also CU he was like the designer yeah and he was like the true creative behind it it wasn't like a brand it was like a person no and he went to the extent to only make this collection with Amiga under one rule that there was no amig on the D so all the you know he said this has to be a piece of jewelry and his name is not on the D either he's just said it's all on the case back um and I think that's the sort of craziness that I would expect certain brands to have the audacity to do I think CTI is doing some cool stuff also I think people make fun of me a lot for being so into AP and RM but actually the underlying reason for that is because they kind of just do what they want and they don't really care and they know they know what their identity is and they just lean into it and so I think that's what I really respect it's like that strong brand identity and they just keep it moving and it's not so much about what are they going to say and the comments and like it's just a sort of fre of spirit yeah brands should have the audacity to say okay we're going to make this and make it but I think they should invest in Creative directors and creative real artists within the brand and that's something you know I express also towards Universal just to loop back I told them like I think this brand will Thrive if it's curated also on a creative level I think that's very important guys before we wrap up I'll I'll open it up for a couple of questions I think we we've got a little bit of time but can I do a quick wrist check while people prepare their their questions for allisandro or mikica uh Mr a you first please all right I'll take this one I have a PA rder with the enamel BW down pretty Unique Piece nothing too crazy but it's uh definitely something you don't really get to see much and happy to finally found this one how about you Tony I'm wearing a a boring uh Rolex Explorer mikica that's not boring no it's beautiful rude Tony um I'm actually wearing two watches which I find like kind of embarrassing but also I'm letting my freak flag fly today uh embrace it yeah yeah yeah why not I might as well um um I've got a tiny Vashon cocktail watch on from the ' 50s and then I've got a new Mini tank kelc beautiful yeah they look good together honestly they kind of do yeah uh any questions for for the panel here don't be shy sh come on Mike well on that note then maybe we can leave it there alisandra thank you again for flying all the way from Milan Mica as always thank you for joining us see you in the office and I think the next panel is in an hour so in 30 minutes 30 minutes so we'll see you all again in 30 minutes hopefully thank you all it's been a pleasure