Talking Universal Genève With Collector Matthew Fisher

So, how did you get into this era of collecting Eugi? These are just they're phenomenal workh horses. I mean that, you know, the precision is great. They have a great feel. The winding is beautiful. They're beautiful on the wrist. They're extremely wearable. Whether it's far more sporty, even a little dressier. It's almost a perfect watch. I'm here today in New York with Matt Fischer. We're here to talk about UG and specifically we're here to talk about one of Universal Janav's most beloved watches or series of watches, the compacts and everything in between. So before we get into all these awesome watches that we have on the table, what brought you specifically to UG? So I went through a collecting journey um probably starting 20 plus years ago and then got into vintage PC and wanted to really go deep and then I discovered Universal in and around the time that Ben actually bought that Pete Fullerton tri compacts and the design language of the brand and the legacy of the brand. It checked all my boxes. really gravitated towards it and I just went way down the rabbit hole and since then it's been all things universal Janev for me. I'm affectionately known on Instagram as Dandy Watchman and I literally do nothing but universal. I collect nothing else and my personal specialty I guess is is chronographs. So talking compacts is is the most exciting thing for me. We have watches with calendar functions. We have plain chronographs. I mean, what was it that that really scratched the itch about just these models in particular when part of your brain was pulling you one way and then you latched on to the idea of, "Oh, this is another interesting way to go." They had something for everybody from the founding of the brand to coming into that mid 1940s period. It was pretty much all chronograph. I mean, yes, there was some time only and this and that, but the bulk of what they did, the design language, the audience they were trying to cater to was really a chronograph for pretty much everybody, whether it was aviation, medicine, photographers with the film compacts. And then the next big move was when they took the calendar watch and put it into the chronograph to come up with the tri compacts. Did you find it interesting when you were starting to try to hone in on one thing and then expand because we do have a variety here or have you always tried to keep it relatively compact? No, no pun intended compact, but in terms of what you're what you're trying to in terms of personal collection. Yeah. Um, yeah, it's it's it's gone through various iterations. So even in terms of the side of chronographs, I was much more, you know, square pusher, 1940s design language, 30s design language all the way through for a long time until I really got obsessed with pump pushers because of the waterproof nature of them, the functionality, the wearability. Because look, a lot of these watches over time, if they weren't perfectly cared for, if they were used, these dust proof components were great, but you know, a lot of them took a beating. So if you you get obsessed with you know quality and I think that's you know for most collectors that's over time you're kind of gradually trying to build whether it's on the quality scale or the rarity side it made it somewhat challenging and then you moved into for me the waterproofing side which became a huge component of the wearability cuz I love to wear everything I own. So starting with uh you know wearability and usability uh aside I guess we're talking about purpose-built tools and I believe one of the earliest things if not the earliest that we have here is a military pocket watch. Yes that was actually a service piece. If you roll it over you'll see it still has the article number on it. These were World War II German military usage. That's who ultimately commissioned them. And this actually survived post World War II. That's why you see if you look at the back it's scratched off. It had to be cleansed. we get into something that's another interesting pocket watch, but to me I think starts to represent a little bit more about where you see the brand heading in terms of design language. So, can you tell me a little bit about this? Yeah, so this is basically the pocket compacts and the cool thing about these that I think a lot of people find very fascinating about them is that the registers moved. So, it's still a three register, but the the configuration of the registers is actually not the same as what it would be unless you go kind of and turn it on itself. So this design too just even the case the case designs these there was a number of variations in these they came in both steel and gold and the differentiation between a lot of them was a whether it was steel and gold or a lot of them it was the bow so they had slightly different you know subtle case design differences but you know the thing that people love about these is to create visual balance they basically put the logo in that fourth register. Yeah it was just so brilliant just something no one else was doing. So, I got my requisite pocket watch fixed for now, but we move into wrist watches that lead us into uh compacts. What What can you tell me? First of all, I would imagine that the smallest of the two is probably the earliest, right? Or is that later? Um, now I mean that's in line. The earliest here would really be this one, which is sort of a new project for me, which is known as the contacts. Okay. So the contacts came out 1935 36 but it's really the first three register chronograph for the most part of not just universal but possibly even in general. So this would be the earliest probably and then you move into this would be early 1940s which is a baby compacts. They were predominantly for women but they're you know amazing to see so much functionality trapped in these tiny 27 mm cases which are just absolutely fantastic. Now, we're going to jump a little bit forward to a mid to later era of that original Universal brand and and company and name to some of their most beloved, a little bit bigger, a little bit more modern, a little bit more modern design language in the compactses that you have right here. So, how did you get into this era of collecting UG? If you like that Rolex type feel like that that sportier, you know, super bulletproof, these are just they're phenomenal workh horses. I mean that, you know, the precision is great. They have a great feel. The winding is beautiful. They're beautiful on the wrist. They're extremely wearable, whether it's far more sporty, even a little dressier. I mean, like a Nenina to me is it's almost a perfect watch in so many ways that I ultimately, you know, decided and wanted to have that represented in my collection. And I do find them so wearable that it's it's it's a huge component. These are so striking to me from a design language side that it seems like this is where a lot of attention went. Yes. I think I think you know once there was a lot of of stress over the years in terms of after the period of time when they lost control of Martell and Zenith ultimately took that on where they had to sort of reintroduce or reinvent themselves in terms of the of the compact side and they moved over to Valju. So it really became a focus on I think design and style. That's when you really started to see and you can sort of see it here because they started to apply some of the successful design language that maybe came from other models. So like you know these sort of twisted lugs originally kind of came in the '50s with the pole router and then ultimately made its way into the compacts later on whereas this is sort of more of a traditional straight lug style and that was at the same period. So you can see they started to really focus on devising the design elements they thought were most representative of of their image and their character and also would be um you know hopefully successful in the marketplace. So we're looking at a panda chronograph that might be one of to me the earliest nicknames made up by the collector community. What can you tell me about this watch that has become sort of one of the grails for most? It's certainly up there. I mean, look, chronographs and racing heritage we know are sort of one and the same. You know, the tie-ins to what race car drivers or, you know, Formula 1 drivers wore. In this case, you know, Nina Rent was the wife of of Yoken Rent who was a Formula 1 driver. And basically, there's a picture of her that was that surfaced or found. She's literally timing him on the track and on her wrist is a Universal Janev compacts, which you know would be an 885103. And that is what then became known as the Nenina Rint. And that's the panda version. And it's, you know, very noticeable. She's got on a bunt strap. It's absolutely amazing. We could talk from the last decade of how, you know, in terms of women wearing watches of larger sizes and whatnot. I mean, that was so unconventional for the time you think about it. I mean, the whole thing was so striking in so many ways that, you know, there's no better association you could have to make it just cool. Which out of these six for compacts, which was the earliest in the lineage of production for the brand? For the brand. Yeah. So, actually four of these are very much in close proximity. Um, the first is actually probably what we call the the albino, which is a 22703. It's a larger 40mm case size, wider lugs, but that would have been sort of early 60s. So, there was a period of time. There was a number of different models of the compacts when sort of the compacts came back I don't want to call come back to life but it was really the transition into that sort of early 60s period when they moved um you had sort of a simple linen dial um which was a you know 36 millimeter case and then that moved into what was known as the valu 72 version of that and then there's a larger variation and there was other ones that you saw there was an arrow compacts of the same case style it was called the arrow compacts just because it was literally marked on the dial and had different sort of like very legible raised Arabic numerals but didn't have that momentto dial like the ones from the 40s and that was sort of the reintroduction of a bunch of the compacts name um and then from this it sort of carried through in a very similar time period pretty much in close succession into what was the big eyes which were the uni compacts the two register iteration for then and then what we'd call the Nina Mark1 one in both dial variants. How have you seen these change the uni compact specifically in terms of interest in collectibility versus the rest of the watches? These did have a period of time where they were super super super hot and then it definitely dipped back and then they've really come back again but the where there's a lot of people seeking them, there's just not a lot of them. Yeah. And there's something about them that's just so design-wise you say to yourself like what what what was going on there in terms of like that oversized, you know, minute counter. It's such a unique look. I mean, obviously we saw it in sort of yaching chronographs and other ones of the era, but they're definitely back and I think they're on a lot of people's grail lists. All right, so getting back into I guess compacts proper, we've got two really interesting compacts here. You can see the similarities and then you can see some very remarkable differences. So which I mean were these about the same time? What are we looking at here? This obviously goes through various iterations. When you get into these, these hit sort of like 1971. Yeah. I mean, this is like the tail end like where you got these funky colorful dials, psychedelic kind of era, you know, psychedelic era, just really sort of wild combinations, but there's little details on them, whether it's those little hints of red on the markers, again, those like stacked markers like you saw on the, you know, the exotics or or whatnot. They create a layering like a visual layering to the watches that just make them so, you know, just magnificent to wear and enjoy because they're not it's not a flat dial. It's obviously a collection of Singer dials that just they gravitated towards and, you know, like everything else in terms of a lot of other people at the time, it's like, you know, everything about UG is still right in there, whether it's, you know, singing dials or gay, you know, bracelets, etc. So, it's all the highle stuff, but these were just a totally unique colorway. And there were two variations of this. This is considered the silver variant, and then there's the blue variant. Both are fairly beloved. I'd say almost the blue variant might even be slightly more beloved than the silver. It's just absolutely stunning uh and just so funky. You've got this external track like the Paul Newman Daytonas, but then there are little things in this that makes it so distinctly universal. The handset and a lot of these other things. The the logo is just so of that time period as well. Yeah. And we see it carry through, you know, from the other compacts models. Those are very distinct universal type characteristics that started in the '60s and carried through in this wave of development for the compacts. And I guess it's it's good to note because as you move into the 50s, the whole compacts universe quiets way down, right? it it what the company was really built on that was really it because the introduction of the pole router which happened in the early 1950s took the center stage and you know wasn't that chronographs were not still being made but when I say they're very like you will when you do serial tracking on these you do not get a lot from the late 50s so once you hit the mid-50s which we have a couple examples here of like you know this would be like late 40s dry complex which we'll get to and then and same with this would be like mid-50s that's kind of when the buck stops right and like these You start to see like, okay, we now start to see the introduction of that pump pusher and then you watch the evolution of the case design which ultimately starts here in a way and then moves into here and then moves into here as they sort of take some of the pole router components and then bring it into this as well. From a case design perspective, you do watch it sort of all interconnect and then this is why the 60s becomes almost like the reintroduction of the compacts. Yeah, it's a culmination of a lot of different factors. I mean, like you say, they're pulling from different models to find the best of everything that they have and then reinterpreting it for other models. Before we get to some of my favorite watches, I do want to talk about this weird subline that to me it stands out not only as representative of a design era, but there is a space race futuristic quality to them. And you mentioned earlier your love of the pole router sub and then you've got a space compact. The odd thing about the space complex in a lot of ways is the name. Yeah. Because it's really was designed for aquatic function more than anything, right? It's basically the same as the ladder pole sub cases. Yeah. You know, these rubberized covered pushers, which are just so strange. So strange. The screw down crown, the rotating, you know, bezel. It It's It's very divingesque. Yet the name is Space Compact. This is a watch that it just feels so bulletproof and so waterproof. Not that I'd ever go diving with it, but you're never worried if you get caught in the rain. You're, you know, that kind of thing. It just feels, you know, you feel very, very secure with it on your wrist. So, now we get to what was sort of my first introduction to the brand. Uh, the things that I really wanted and were always sort of there but maybe a little out of reach because I think a lot of people are captivated by the tri compacts. Where did the tri compacts start? I guess we can look at early calendar watches from Eugi as as a part of the lineage of this. Yeah, I mean they came out pretty much around the same time. What made the calendar one sort of interesting is there is two iterations of it with moonphase and without. You do see a little bit of the technical evolution because you've added that moonphase component, but there is a variation where you don't have it. And then what we call the triple date moonphase, there were a handful that were done in 14 karat white gold. You don't see many of them. They all were done with that horn lug. That's where you see the calendar function evolve and then get placed into what became the tri compacts, which was launched right before what would have been right around the 50th anniversary of the Marine. For the tri compacts, there's two here that really stand out as as sort of I mean, one of them specifically is one of my all-time favorite UGs and I think is just such a modern design language that it really could carry on to today. And then there's one that's just I think like the ultimate flex of of tri compact. So talk me through these two as as favorites of mine and and I think favorites for a lot of people in the audience. These really are your final evolution of the tri compacts. These are your late eras. You know it's always interesting to note how this actually comes at a later date. You know the exotic compacts ends up in the early '7s whereas these kind of peter out 6869 is when they kind of really are done. And I think some of the thinking on that is is that you know there there may have been you know whether it was a final batch of 281s or whatever they had because at that point you had already kind of had to transition to that valued movement but for the triple calendar for the tri compacts there was never a new movement for that. It's unclear if the focus was other things as well because at that same time period you started to see a lot of big push towards like development of like ultra thin you know microtor movements or ultra thin automatics you know some of those things were I think top of the list you know it's interesting maybe to look back I mean were chronograph sales at that period of time waning I mean you know we've certainly heard stories that some people would say like you know Paul Newman's came out and they were you know if you talk to a dealer from back then they're like I couldn't get this thing out of the case now they're super beloved but was it a sales element element? Was it a manufacturing element? It's tough to really know. And as you mentioned, they had a hit on their hand with the pole router because the automatic watch in many ways for some brands killed off other things before than even Yeah. the quartz killed killed off the the automatic watch. So, do you think that that represents that these exotic dials and their the rarity of that is similar to the Paul Newman's in terms of their desiraability for collectors at the time? Did that contribute to the rarity of them now? My guess is, you know, these probably didn't sell that well and there probably weren't very many made. So, yes, in a similar vein now, looking back, the desiraability of these has, you know, become second to none in in many ways. Like now it's almost like everyone wants an exotic. So these were like you know 38 very heavy solid 18k which you even when you look through the history of UG I mean there was you know don't get me wrong plenty of 18k but as you got into sort of the pump pusher side that actually started to wayne you actually saw a lot less 18 karat gold. You saw actually more 14 karat gold in a lot of the pump pusher variations. And then these you sort of had to you know you can tell there had to be some sort of adaptation because this is basically the same dial. Mhm. That tacky scale actually pulls in a way from early pole router design language in terms of it's basically a rehoot that serves as the tension ring of the plexi. Yeah. So the dial is still very much the same because it's again it's a 281. Um this was sort of you know something you had to do to basically accommodate it and make it visually appealing inside that larger case. It's just fascinating to see how they experimented and then kind of learned from themselves and went back and like realized they had an idea from something else that they could use in and a new model. And I think it shows a lot of thought on ter in terms of the people that were around at UG at the time. Now the brand is coming back. We're looking at what the brand might be able to put together in terms of design. Any thoughts about your hopes for what they can carry on from an ethos from this into a modern era? Fortunately, being ahead of their time to some degree allows us to maybe pull some things forward easily. It's trying to take that DNA, take the brand DNA and and the spirit and apply it to what what will hopefully come and modernize them in a different way. Seeing the brand come back to life and being part of that for me is is one of the biggest honors I could possibly have being, you know, having literally spent over a decade devoted to to this brand, its prior form. Well, thank you for bringing that that passion, that excitement, and and these amazing watches. My pleasure.