“PMs who use AI will replace those who don’t”: Google’s AI product lead on the new PM toolkit

When all these tools we use every day started coming up, I started figuring out how can I be an AI enhanced PM? So, how can I be better at my job, have more impact, be more productive? So, what you're going to walk us through is this has inspired some ideas of wow, if I had a fridge and a video and data. What products could I build that would be useful to me as a consumer? Where would you start as a PM who is working on a smart fridge? Within minutes, I can literally see what the entirety of the world is thinking about. We have opinions in our hands and we can split and filter out these opinions based on people that want this versus people that don't want this. And we can actually read and have them debate with each other so that we know what it would take to find product market fit. Okay, you did your market research in 3 minutes and your PR generation in 90 seconds. Now, my job is not done as a PM. The next step is to actually create a prototype so that the people that I will present this idea to will see my vision having flesh. Welcome back to how I AI. I'm Clarvo, product leader and AI obsessive here on a mission to help you build better with these new tools. Today we have Marilyn Nika, a AI product lead at Google and AI educator who's thinking a lot about how AI is changing the art of product management. She's going to speedrun us through using some of her favorite tools to do market research, build out requirements documents, prototype complicated things, and a few tricks on how to use AI Video Gen to influence your stakeholders and sell your vision. Let's get to it. This episode is brought to you by work OS. AI has already changed how we work. Tools are helping teams write better code, analyze customer data, and even handle support tickets automatically. But there's a catch. These tools only work well when they have deep access to company systems. 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I am excited because we have a very fun kind of unique product use case you've been thinking about and using AI to explore the space of what it means to both be an AIPM and how you can PM AI products. So let's dive in and talk to us about what's been on your mind in terms of products. >> Yeah, sounds good and thank you so much for for having me. Um yeah what I like to say is that I was in AI before it was cool and I was a pure AI PM meaning I was working with scientists and training models for speech recognition and it was great but since 2017 when all these you know tools we use every day started coming up I started figuring out you know how can I be an AI enhanced PM so how can I be better at my job have more impact be more productive and I'd be happy to walk you through a couple of my you know, how I how I AI. So, I'm just so excited to to be here. >> Great. And so, what fun product are we going to talk about as an example? I know that you have um lot, you know, we were just talking before the show, you have lots of jobs. I think this is a little bit of a hypothetical that we're going to work through, but I think it does show off some of the techniques that you've learned in the course of of the last couple years in your career. So, what are we talking about here? >> All right. So, when I was trying to come up with a cool use case when, you know, I was planning the the podcast, I thought about what happened last Sunday. And last Sunday, I was literally walking out from my house um with my kids and I look at the fridge and I post the that image that the fridge had on LinkedIn and as you can see that image went viral. So, it said these items are expiring soon. And it says my Coca-Cola apparently was 80 days old. First of all, I didn't know Coca-Cola expires. Second of all, I did not know my I did not know my fridge could do that. Okay, I know there is a inwards um facing camera, but I saw this and again I put my PM hat on. What an interesting insight. And as you can see, it says, you know, you can dismiss it, you can snooze. It does say search for recipes, you know, which is not great. But when I posted this, there were 700 likes, 100 comments of PMs commenting what they could do by having this information and 13 reposts. So, I'd love to unpack this as a use case and see how we can leverage this suite of amazing AI tools we have and just uh, you know, see see in action what it'd be like to be a PM for a smart fridge. This is totally product thinking because you have a device or something in your house and you get surprised by a user experience and I too did not realize Coca-Cola expired. I thought you could use it till the end of time. Um, and so what you're going to walk us through is this has inspired some ideas of wow, if I had a fridge and a video and data, what products could I build that would be useful to me as a consumer? and you're going to use that as an example to walk us through some of the really useful uh AI powered PM techniques you found over the past couple months. So, where would you start as a PM who is working on a smart fridge uh for busy families who who clearly have 80day old items in their fridge? Well, I we have this magic in our hands and the very first thing we do as PNS, right, is talk to users and listen to what users want and user research. Now, traditionally, you know, you would either leverage the UXR department of your company or you would hire an external research agency. But with AI, within minutes, I can literally see what the entirety of the world is thinking about. So I open up perplexity and something that not a lot of people know about is that there is this magic filter here. You can obviously search the web if you want or academic papers or you know SEC filings on finance but you can only search through discussions and opinions. So this searches through Reddit. So here's what I'm going to do. Okay. Um, would families be interested in a smart fridge? So, if I ask something like this, it's like I get the entirety of Reddit and people's opinions just mind at once and I can see references. I can see all the threads and I can jump into them to actually see the discussion and I see, you know, use cases that are kind of positive, family use cases, common concerns, adoption barriers, um, you know, some sentiment and all these things. Now, this alone is pure gold and the treasure. However, what I love doing is taking things one step further. So, here, bear with me. Here's what I'm going to do now. Create two items. one that is pro smart fridge and one that is against smart fridge. Use everything you read and have these two agents debate at least I don't know like 20 times about it and give me the minimum set of features I would need in order to convince the against agent. Now we're diving into Reddit. We're we have opinions in our hands and we can split and filter out these opinions based on people that want this versus people that don't want this. And we can actually read and have them debate with each other so that we know what it would take to find product market fit. And we're we did that in seconds. And it's just such an incredible incredible tool to have. All right. So here we have the pro- aagents arguments and then we have the against agents arguments and you can see the discussion is based on actual references from um from the actual discussion and then there's a 20 round debate of pros and cons and all these things and the best part is the ending where perplexity told me okay here's what you need to do in order to build a fridge um that is going to resonate with family which is your your target group. I can't even begin to describe how much time this has saved and how much more likely I am to find product market fit by leveraging uh this technology. So now naturally the next step um there's something I I do call tool hopping. So we're going to hop on to our next tool, but I'd love to see if there are any comments or any questions here. One comment I do have on this is so often we hear about AI that it really wants to tell you your ideas are great. And so I think if you just said, "Do families want a smart fridge?" without any additional prompting, it would probably bias towards telling you that families do want a smart fridge, maybe with some caveats, but it tends to be uh pretty agreeable when it comes to um uh interacting on ideas. And so I love this idea that I want to make sure people don't miss, which is actually prompting the AI to create two different personas in its analysis. Create a persona that's very for your idea or implementation or design or code. Create an agent that's very against your idea. Again, it doesn't have to be an idea. It could be, are you against the implementation of this code? Again, a really good use case. have them do a hypothetical or artificial debate on the topic and then deconstruct that debate in a way that allows you to identify what would be the convincing arguments, capabilities or implementation that might work. And so I think this is just a really great um little hack on getting higher quality um more critical thinking out of these LLMs that might be biased a little bit to agree with your ideas and tell you they're good. Yeah, I completely agree. And the most important part is I told it what format I need this response in. And the format I need it in is features cuz I'm a PM and because features is the input I need for the next tool I will demo. So now what I'm going to do is I am going to copy the the minimum set of features that perplex the things I need and then I'm going to go to trajub in order to create um a pd. Now I have created an AI product GBD as I like to call it that has a template of my favorite PD and essentially I prompt it with specific features and it outputs a PD in the style that I spit in my own voice. So the next step is I come here when it says ask anything and I say generate a PD about a smart fridge that has these features and essentially I am pasting the output for from Plexity and now there we go immediately it just generates and say okay well the PD is an AI enhanced smart bridge with local first intelligence this is what it includes here's the problem statement what users you know why privacy conscious consumers DIY open source enthusiasts summary and feature analysis of architecture key features of course it's does prioritization and all these good things at the same time now this is not going to be perfect immediately however it gives me an incredible head start in order to just have my strategic thinking in the in my and spend spend way less time in making a copy of the peer engine title. So now I'm an AI enhanced um PM. The other thing I want to call out for uh folks that are looking at this is this is a GPT specifically to create PRDS around AI powered products. Um I noticed or at least that's what it looks like. And so I do think that um you can create sort of general purpose document generators, but the more you can do a combination of structure and content in terms of your prompting, I think the higher quality results you're going to get. And so, okay, you did your market research in 3 minutes and your PR generation in 90 seconds, but you know, it's a long way to the factory floor and actually building this thing. And so, you know, once you have this, how do you like to think about designing great products with with AI or what's the next step for you? >> Yes, it's really interesting how this flow has changed, right? It used to be, hey, I'm a PM. I come up with an idea. I'd create a PR. I debate with a PRD and collaborate with my scientists and my engineers until we're done. And then we create a little MVP. Now my job is not done as a PM. Now that I have my PRD, the next step is I need to build. So I'm putting my AI builder hat, as I like to say it. And the next step is to actually create a prototype so that the people that I will present this idea to will see my vision having flesh. So the next step is to build to prototype. There is obviously many tools um that we can use. One of my favorite tools is of course um Vzero Lovable. Google AI studio has prototyping as well. Now um I will use Vzero. It's one of the tools that I have had you know the best kind of outputs with and what I did is I copied the output from my custom GVT and then I'm about to paste it here. So the prompt I will use here will be create the UI of a smart fridge given this PD as an input and I will just paste the whole thing because it's a very long document it takes it in as a note and then I just do this and then we just wait and do you feel like these PRDs obviously I do um you know we have an integration with with Vzero and all these vibe coding tools because we really believe that a PRD is a higher quality input to this. You know, have you tried this, you know, prompting directly versus just pasting in the PRD and feel like that extra step really does help with the prototyping quality? I do a lot of experimentation and I experimented because I wanted to move fast at some point and I realized that the number of tweaks I had to do later on really got me overwhelmed and tired versus me starting spending some more time in order to make sure the input is very very good. Um it really pays off. >> Yep. And you know, how do you think about where this might fit in the product development workflow? It seems like for you a prototype is really a communication tool. So it's a tool by which you know if somebody read the PRD you're like yeah it's a like locally intelligent smart fridge. Sure, whatever. But once you can see, touch, feel it, it becomes much more compelling. And so you know I'm curious. Do you think this is a influence tactic that PMs are are underestimating? Is it really to design the right thing? Where do you think PMs can use this kind of prototype? The perfect place to use this is at the product review. So, I find that a lot of product reviews happen more often now with AI because things move fast because some people are really not convinced with AI yet. So, if you enter a product review that's just about, hey, here's what I want to do. >> Are you in or are you out? Here's where you need to invest your resources in. And they can get a link and on their laptop actually touch it, feel it, see it, move around. You communicate your vision and your passion more effectively versus here's a PR that I turned into a deck for you so that I can walk you through it. It's just so much more. It adds credibility. It adds value. It's just so so so much more effective. >> Amazing. Okay. And now we have an open fridge dashboard. I have to call out for people who are not watching on YouTube and are listening. My favorite part of this UI is the door status widget that tells you if the door is open or closed. It's amazing. My kids go to the freezer to get ice cream and they don't close it. Mine too. Mine too. It beeps. If you >> No, you and I have the same life. They they close it like but it's this much this much open. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And the light is on and they're in such a rush to eat the ice cream that they don't care. Um okay. So yeah, we can see here fridge temperatures, door status, um power usage. That's a good one. You know the temperature that you can change recent activity. Oh, what time it opened and it closed. That's also good to call them out and say, "Did you have an ice cream?" um temperature check completed safety monitoring it's all these controls and you can see that this tool took the purity as an input and it added features on top of it. It guessed what the UI needs to look like. Um so imagine your leadership or even your cross functional partners to be able to experience your product idea. Imagine just how much more effective the meeting would be. Yeah. One thing I have to have to call out is because you said that privacy and local intelligence was so important in your PR based on your research. And I think that's a lot of people saying, "I don't want my smart fridge monitoring me. I don't want a cloud connected smart fridge. I don't want advertising. I don't want monitoring." If you go up to I think hardware, I'm pretty sure or diagnostics. I'm pretty sure your smart fridge is shipping with a GPU, which I find very very funny. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> You know, maybe you can also run your coding models locally through through your fridge, you know. Exactly. I love it. It's a little bit of storage as well. Yeah, this is this is great. Um, but again, this is a wonderful 100% local processing. Look at this. It has a little band that shows you so that you can feel safe. Yeah, this is great. I would buy this. I think this is this really phenomenal. >> This is very much like a Silicon Valley fridge right here. It's in dark mode. It's uh it's got system diagnostics. As long as you can like rooe into your your fridge, people are going to be really happy. You've seen the doom and gloom headlines. AI is coming for your job. But the reality is a little bit brighter. In Miro's latest survey, 76% of people say AI can boost their work. It's just that 54% still don't know when to use it. As a product leader and a solo founder, I live or die by how fast I can turn fuzzy ideas into crisp value propositions, road maps, and launch plans. That's why I love Miro's innovation workspace. It drops an AI co-pilot inside the canvas so stickies, screenshots, and brainstorm bullets can become usable diagrams, product briefs, and even prototypes in minutes. Your team can dive in, riff, and iterate. And because the board feels like a digital playground, everyone has fun while you cut cycle time by a third. Miro lets humans and AI play to their strengths so that great ideas ship faster and happier. Help your teams get great done with Miro. Check out miro.com to find out how. That's mirror o.com. So, we have this and it's great. It's an amazing first activation. Obviously, for a real thing, um I would ask at least five to 10 follow-ups. Usually, I add some images of it as well. Maybe I add an animation and at that point things are great. But this is not enough. Um I add one more step to my workflow which is people really want to experience what this would look like from the user perspective. And nowadays we have all these wonderful tools that go from text to video. And so the next step I would like to do is actually go to flow. Flow is this um app by Google labs. And then if you click on create with flow, you can type new project. And then here you can literally just go back to perplexity if you want or get your P and say create a promotional clip for two for a couple using a smart fridge that has these features. And I can paste. And then you can choose what um model you want to have. So for example, what you know the aspect ratio is, whether it's going to be fast, if it's going to have audio. I think I'm going to go with high quality just to see what can come out of it. And then hit this. And then we with movie magic, we can make people wait a little less uh as this generates. But I love Veo. It's such a great model. >> Such an amazing model. I've been using Sora too at the same time. I have the the app on my phone and >> obviously you know that generates in seconds which is amazing and you can do cameos and all that stuff but >> they they roll it out as part of a social network. I don't know if you've tried it now. >> It's interesting. It's creepy at the same time but mostly interesting. But yeah, I had >> I had my AirPods and I took a photo of it and I told Sora I said, "Hey, tag Merrily using these and make that an advert and it zooms in and it opens it up on the sky and has me saying a nice girl." Amazing times. Amazing times. Absolutely. Yeah. My my kids find it very funny when I make um Sora cameos of myself being like a like doing kung fu fighting or doing something really funny. So it's quite it's quite entertaining. I'm you know I think the the social network aspect of it is a distribution um method for the underlying API models. So, I think it just shows sort of power users what's possible with it and probably then people get excited about commercial applications. But I think it's pretty pretty cool. Look at this door. A jar. They're really worried about that door being open. >> Also, the screen is inside the refrigerator in one of the >> What is going on? Okay. Um, yeah, let's play. I hope the video I hope the audio is going to go through. Okay, let's see. Number one, >> get instant local notifications like when the door is a jar, ensuring your food stays fresh and secure. Get instant. >> So number one, again for people who are not on YouTube and enjoying this high quality AI generated video, there is a screen on the refrigerator. This very attractive, well-dressed couple opens up the refrigerator and there's another screen inside. >> Amazing. All right, number two. Let's see. >> Okay, >> two screens again. That's uh interesting. That's interesting. Um there's no voice. >> Cool music on this one. Yeah, cool music. This one, there is a screen inside. Basically, the only thing you can see inside the refrigerator is a screen that says the doors open and then when you close the door, the screen shows up again. Let's keep fingers crossed for number three being the winner. >> All right, let's see. >> It says we have enough for the lasagna recipe right here. >> Perfect. And I love that it's all stored locally. No cloud needed. It says we have >> I think we have a wiener player. >> I I think so. Except if you watch it again, I think the man has disappeared >> and it's replaced by a lady. Watch. Watch this. >> We have enough for the lasagna recipe right here. >> Perfect. And I love that it's all stored locally. No cloud needed. It >> did. It's >> Well, we don't need them anymore. We're good. >> You know what? But it is kitchen setting. That's interesting. Um, you know what I may do? I may actually generate myself um >> a Sora >> opening and Sora. I think that would be a very interesting >> I think we should do Okay, so we're going to contrast and compare. How would I improve this? I think you know my feedback on prompting here is it's really overindexed on this door is open use case. So, I would probably pull that from the prompt. And I would also maybe as a good product manager, one of my favorite parts to put in a in a PRD, this is in our default chat pd is actually what's called a narrative, which is a story about an end user getting value from the product or being successful with the product. And I like to write those stories as part of PRDS because I think it it forces you to take a very user centric lens on a list of features. And so I might generate a narrative here and try the like pick a pick a hero story from the narrative as opposed to overindexing so much on the features. Um but the quality is amazing. >> The quality is amazing and this took what 30 minutes. If we didn't comment and laugh it would have been like a 20 minute workflow. So, it's just >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Exactly. >> Okay. So, what we're doing now, just for folks that um again are just listening and not on video, we are pulling up Sora. You have created a cameo of yourself, which is basically like an AI avatar of your face. Um warning to people who are using Soras to create cameos. They really force you to continue to dress how you're dressed in your cameo. So, I was wearing like very printed shirt when I did my Cameo, first cameo recording, and now all my clothes in every Cameo are crazy. Um, but you're generating OpenAI Sora video. Did you use the exact same prompt or did you change it a little bit? very similar prompt, but I decided to add someone else in my cameo and I looked at who enables who can do that and I'm adding Mark Cubain to our deal. >> I think we're going to get I think we're going to get a cost plus drugs advertisement because also I don't know if you know this uh folks that are listening about Sora when you create your cameo you can ship it with custom instructions. So you can say never generate this or always generate that. I say always make me look good on my cameo. And I'm pretty sure Mark Cuban put in his like in every video make sure to put a cost plus drugs ad in it. So I think we're going to get a smart smart fridge video with a embedded advertisement >> for Mark company. You know, I had added um make me have a pet pegasus with me at all times. Everything I do, there's like a pet of Pegasus with me. Um but yeah, let's see. Let's see how it goes. Um all right, my cameo is ready. First time I'm watching it. It's me and Mark Kuban opening a smart fridge. Um all right, let's see. Let's see how it goes. I don't know what we're going we're about to see. So, this is the smart fridge you told me about. >> Yeah. Watch what happens when I wake it up. >> It looks like a normal fridge >> until it starts thinking. Oh, it already knows what's inside. >> Mediterranean quinoa bowl, Greek salad, pasta primma vera. >> I mean, first of all, Greek salad. That was interesting. I'm Greek. I think it's >> I know. It must have known. >> But I mean, pretty impressive, right? It came out with a little dialogue and it's added two people. I mean, this is magic. Look, PMS, what I want you, we've we've had some giggles here, but let's just take a step back and talk about what we've done in basically 20 minutes. We have done full endtoend user research using the wealth of information available in Reddit. We've come up with a highly defensible set of features which we turned into a PRD. We turn that PRD into a prototype that then you could take into a product review and click through. And then just, you know, we're going to work on our prompting a little bit and our cameos, but just imagine pairing that with some sort of videogenerated visual or set of visuals that really just hammer home the value proposition of the thing that you're trying to build. And that package, which we just talked about, we just did, can actually be built in like 15 to 20 minutes without the chitchat. And it's just something that is was never ever ever possible before. And so what I think you're showing is the way we do product has changed. The way we convince and influence our internal stakeholders has changed. The way we communicate both product value and functionality has changed. If you use a combination of these tools, even if you hit some silly roadblocks, you've just like totally flipped product management and the process on its head and made it just much more compelling. >> It's just incredible how the role has changed of being a PM. You got to be AI enhanced. And it's not like AI is taking over a role. If anything, PMs that use AI are the ones that are going to take over the role of people that don't use AI. So, it's just so important to explore and adapt and see which tools fit to your workflow because, you know, my choices might not be the same as other people's choices, right? Um, but I'm excited I get to to share them with you. >> Great. So, in addition to this um kind of new world AIPM stuff, you have one other kind of power use case of another tool that we we've seen occasionally on the show, but not too frequently, and I think your use case is really interesting. So, do you want to spin that up? >> Yeah, sounds good. So outside of my day job as an AI PM, I'm an AI educator and a founder of the AI product academy and I have a boot camp. It's AI product management boot camp and certification and people get to join us for six weeks and build their own product end to end. They actually launch a product by having an an engineer attached to them. Now we have a demo day and that's the best part of the boot camp. Everyone comes in, presents, they earn prizes, they pitch to VCs, and I wanted to add AI as a judge. And I thought about how I could do that long and hard. And I ended up using Notebook LM as a judge. And I want to show you what this looks like cuz it was super cool. It's super interesting. So on June 13, we had a demo day. And what I did is I recorded the audio of every single pitch and I uploaded these separate files here. So this notebook actually has all these presentations. And then I went to the audio overview and I added specific instructions to focus on for these AI hosts. And I said, "Okay, this is the demo day of Marily's AI product management boot camp, and I want you to select the top three apps based on these criteria. Number one, you know, how innovative it was. Number two, impact. And number three, storytelling." and I want you to announce these three winners. And then I click generate. And it's phenomenal. Now it's actually generating the audio overview. And you can imagine my boot camp at the end. It's like 200 people really waiting to see what AI is going to say. And we actually did a test with uh well we have live judges and then real people and then the AI and AI really chooses the best demos indeed. So it does listen to all um the audio and it's just such an amazing use case. Everyone loves it. >> I love this so much and it just opens my mind to a couple other use cases that um I've seen very commonly. So demo days both for courses and for hack days or hack weeks could be really useful. I have been in so many sales enablement or sales kickoff meetings where AES do pitch competitions and what a fun way to add sort of like a thirdparty analysis to pitch competitions and make those kind of fun. And so what I love about Notebook LM is you can do audio and multiple file in and then audio and multiple file out. And I think that's really really fun. It's great. And now you can actually do video overviews as well. I haven't tried that for my boot camp, but that could be interesting as well. All right. So now there is a file that got generated on the right. We can either play and hear the whole podcast presenting all the ideas and walking us through them or we can do this super cool thing where you can have this kind of interactive mode which is like an actual live radio podcast where you call in. So, let's do that because I really like this. >> Welcome back to the deep dive. Okay, so you sent over this uh Oh, our listeners got something to share. Let's hear it. >> Hello. We're actually in a rush. Can you please announce the three-way mayors right now? >> Oh, absolutely. We hear you. >> We could definitely cut to the chase, but we do want to give just a little context for >> That's fair. We were just setting up the criteria for judging these fantastic projects. >> And we are totally ready to announce the three winners. >> The quality was so high across the board. >> These projects are tackling some huge problems like health, anxiety, and life administration. >> We grouped the pain points into three big areas. health and wellness pain, >> the grind which is time and life admin pain. >> And the third one is the knowledge and empowerment gap. >> Things like struggling with learning or bad leadership. >> We judge them on three things in Hey, yeah, what's up? >> Just tell me the winners. You're taking too long. >> Oh, we completely understand the need for speed. We got ahead of ourselves. >> You are absolutely right. We apologize for the delay in getting to the point. >> We've got the three winners locked in and ready to go. >> You wanted the winners, so here they are. No more preamble. The three top projects are Endopath, Study Buddy, and Front Desk. >> Those three really stood out, addressing severe quantified pain points. >> All right, so this is incredible because it's not like this one agent we're used to talking to. It's you're talking to them and then the other person is responding. It's just you really feel they're real and it's just magical. But yeah, that's my last use case on what I do on my boot camp and I think it's the most my favorite thing to do on Notebook LM by far. This was really good. I actually didn't know they had that feature. So I again could think of so many like training use cases, lots of things. Um I love those little little podcast hosts. They've got such a vibe and this was such a great use case. Okay, I'm going to ask you our one lightning round question that we ask everybody and then I'm going to get you out of here because you're a busy busy lady. So, we've seen you you're a tool switcher. So, I know that you switch tools, but I have a question. When one of those tools is, you know, let's say Veo, Veo is giving you refrigerators with screens inside, with screens outside, with screens on your face, screens on your freezer, um, screens on your screens. When it's really not getting you what you want, what is your prompting technique? What do you do? The best thing you can do is just kill that instance and start over and use Gen AI to help you write the best prompt. So, I stopped trying to guess it myself and I use AI to help me with it. And the longer the prompt is, the better it's going to be and the less likely to have more iterations. So, yeah, use AI on AI. >> Okay. Kill it. Use AI and make it detailed. >> That's it. >> I love it. Well, thank you so much for joining us. Where can we find you? And then how can we be helpful? >> Please find me on LinkedIn. I post content on AI product management and AI building. But you can be helpful by asking people to join my boot camp. I have a cohort coming up in December. And as I said, people get three certifications and they get to actually build a full product and start their own company because I assign engineers to every team and you can build the product end to end. So it's this new tool that's coming out that is not going to need us to do tool hopping anymore. where you can do everything on this one tool and it's amazing and I can't wait to have people and see what comes out of it and what apps they create. >> Awesome. And I believe you can find that course. I think we're going to get you listed on Lenny's list if you're not already and it'll be at maven.com/lenny. So check out her course. It's going to be amazing for any PM that wants to do this amazing work very very fast. Thank you for joining us on how I AI. >> Thank you so much for having me. Thanks so much for watching. If you enjoyed this show, please like and subscribe here on YouTube, or even better, leave us a comment with your thoughts. You can also find this podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Please consider leaving us a rating and review, which will help others find the show. You can see all our episodes and learn more about the show at howiaipod.com. See you next time.